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meme527
New Pal

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  10:19:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit meme527's Homepage  Send meme527 a Yahoo! Message Send meme527 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey All;

I recently started using this method, and it works for me. Basically the purl stitches sit on the needle with the leading "leg" in the front, but the knit stitches have the leading "leg" in the back of the needle.

grumperina
http://www.grumperina.com/comboknitbackground.htm and annie modesitthttp://www.anniemodesitt.com/explain it better.

is there anyone else out there who has tried this?

please discuss

music: http://www.myspace.com/cecilejohns
photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/memececile
writing:
http://people.tribe.net/memececile

khoff
Chatty Knitter

177 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  11:31:09 PM  Show Profile Send khoff a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is the way I've always knit, although I only recently learned that it was called combined knitting (thanks to this forum!). I didn't even realize it was different than the way most people knit until a friend tried to show me that the stitches were all supposed to be oriented the same way, and I said "then how do you know if you're supposed to knit them or purl them?"

I always did fine with this way of knitting until I started making vests (for a charity) that are knit in the round up to the armhole, and then the front and back are each knit back-and-forth. First I was ending up with twisted stitches on the in-the-round part, because I wasn't doing the untwisting that usually happens automatically on the purl rows. Then when I got that straightened out my stitches started twisting on the back-and-forth parts, because I was compensating when I didn't need to. Now I can knit either way (straight or in the round) without twisting -- I've learned to stop thinking about what I'm supposed to do when and just do whatever is necessary to knit the stitch without twisting it!

I was surprised to learn that many people don't like to purl -- I think combined knitting must make purl stitches easier to work than the "regular" method, because they never seemed any harder than knit stitches to me.

--Jackie
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socks4all
Permanent Resident

USA
1461 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  05:52:21 AM  Show Profile Send socks4all a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many knitters use the combined method. If you do a search you'll find many threads discussing the pros and cons. Anne Modisette has a book devoted to this method. I no longer knit combined but I think it made me a better knitter because like khoff explained, you learn how to read your sts rather than just reading printed patterns.
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of troy
Permanent Resident

USA
2474 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  06:51:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit of troy's Homepage Send of troy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
about 10% of US knitters knit in this style, world wide, its closer to 50%!

combo knitting is found in large parts of Russia, the baltic states, south america, far east, lots of places!

i have been knitting this way for 45+ years, (for years, i thought i knit the "lithuanian way" since a knitting guru at a LYS, when i asked for help, asked me, (after examing my knitting)
"are you Lithuanian?"

10 years latter, i learned that serphardic jews (or at least some of them!) knit in the same style.

in the past 10 years, i have learned its normally called combo.

It words for me (and i realize, that even when i knit backwards, i knit combo!)

I've started a blog...
http://golden-apples.blogspot.com/

but you can still just see my photo albums of mostly knitting. http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/oftroy/
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sbutnarasu
Chatty Knitter

United Kingdom
163 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  07:33:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit sbutnarasu's Homepage Send sbutnarasu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,
I've learnt to knit in Romania (East Europe) and everybody overthere knits using combined purling. On the RS, I always knit through the back, to compensate :).
Now - the problem I had recently was while doing the Kinsale pattern, which requires a lot of changing from knit stitches to purled stiches on the RS - and I had to be very much aware to avoid twisted stiches. It was a pain...
Another problem which bothers me is that all the yarn I've used in England is twisted with an S shape - (S-spun?) and somehow I manage to un-twist the plies on WS ( when purling ). Is this caused by the combined purling method? I do not know another way of purling so I can't really test this :).

best wishes,
Silvia
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Terryknits
Chatty Knitter

USA
275 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  07:44:45 AM  Show Profile Send Terryknits a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Iíve always knitted the combined way. As others at these forums, I didnít know it was different or had a special name until I started reading here. I still have a problem when I want to do a left or right slanting decrease (especially for lace knitting). Much as I try my K2tog and skp never really look like they are mirror images. Iíve tried to follow Annie Modesitt instructions, but to no avail. Other than that flat or round seem to go very fast for me.

Like Jackie I find a purl stitch about as easy as a knit stitch. I donít understand why everyone doesnít use this method. Seems to me it is easier because of the quick purl stitch. The orientation of the leading edge on the needle is not too difficult to master.
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JayhawkKnitter
Seriously Hooked

USA
910 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  08:44:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit JayhawkKnitter's Homepage Send JayhawkKnitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Much as I try my K2tog and skp never really look like they are mirror images.


I think this is endemic to all knitters, not just combo knitters.

**********
Check out my blog!

http://www.knittinhoney.blog-city.com
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of troy
Permanent Resident

USA
2474 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  09:48:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit of troy's Homepage Send of troy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
sbutnarasu, Romania is another one of those places where "east meets west" and Combo knitting is found all along the "fault line" (between Europe and Asia.)

Parts of Greece, Albania, many parts (or generally all of!) many eastern european countries are combo knitters --as are many spanards, since they learned eastern knitting first.

many place that "learned" knitting from spanish explorers (or sailors!) learned combo knitting. Which is why much of south american knitting is combo!



I've started a blog...
http://golden-apples.blogspot.com/

but you can still just see my photo albums of mostly knitting. http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/oftroy/
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HomekeepingGran
Seriously Hooked

614 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  2:11:57 PM  Show Profile Send HomekeepingGran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am a new knitter (less than a year) but thanks to KR found Combination Knitting right at the beginning. I did learn the English method and know how to throw as well, but find Combination faster, easier and smoother. And yes, while purling is somewhat awkward done a la English, it's a snap Combination. I find myself feeling smug (I shouldn't, I know) when those who knit English or Continental complain about purling. My only (tongue-in-cheek) complaint is that it goes by so fast!

Blessings,
Carla

She seeketh wool and flax and worketh willingly with her hands... Proverbs 31:13
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elkymama
Seriously Hooked

USA
688 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  4:45:55 PM  Show Profile Send elkymama a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When my aunt showed me how to knit Combo style, it was a miracle to me. English/American style drove me nuts no matter how much I worked at it -- and I did manage to finish a cardigan sweater when I was 15 -- but somehow my stitches were uneven. I liked knitting, but I didn't like how my knitting looked.

Within 30 minutes of learning the basics of Combined technique, my knitting looked 100% better than it ever had before.

Concerning matching left and right decreases: this page on KnittingHelp.com has a great illustration http://www.knittinghelp.com/knitting/basic_techniques/decrease.php

It shows several variations and has videos in both English and Continental.

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KAMAOR
Chatty Knitter

113 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  5:27:08 PM  Show Profile Send KAMAOR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am a left handed combo knitter so I REALLY drive people crazy when they watch me knit[**]. But they are always amazed at how fast and even my stitches are.
Karen
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meme527
New Pal

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2006 :  8:18:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit meme527's Homepage  Send meme527 a Yahoo! Message Send meme527 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i did a search on this topic before i posted but for some reason i came up with nothing. then again it might be a computer glitch because i came up with nothing no matter what i put into the search variable.

music: http://www.myspace.com/cecilejohns
photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/memececile
writing:
http://people.tribe.net/memececile
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sfgrandma
Chatty Knitter

USA
150 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2006 :  10:24:21 PM  Show Profile Send sfgrandma a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I, too, am a left handed knitter and was taught combined knitting by my mother's friend - and they were both immigrants from Russia. A couple of years ago, I switched to regular continental after running into the twisted stitch problem when knitting socks in the round, but I've never been as comfortable as I was when knitting combined. I've always wondered, what do combined knitters do when a pattern calls for you to knit through the back loop? How do you compensate?
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hillstreetmama
Permanent Resident

USA
3448 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2006 :  04:13:15 AM  Show Profile Send hillstreetmama a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't really understand what combined knitting is! Someone posted a link once, but I still didn't get it. Is there a video? I'm a visual person, and need to watch someone do it.

Jan
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sbutnarasu
Chatty Knitter

United Kingdom
163 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2006 :  06:35:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit sbutnarasu's Homepage Send sbutnarasu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've always wondered, what do combined knitters do when a pattern calls for you to knit through the back loop? How do you compensate?
[/quote]

by knitting through the front :). This will twist the stitch.

Another thing to have in mind is to compensate for decreasings because they will slant exactly the other way around.

Combined knitting works very well in patterns alternating knitting rows with purled rows (stockinette etc.)
I've been working on Kinsale for a while now (www.sbutnarasu.blogspot.com) and it was a PAIN using this method as it's a lot of alternating between knit and purl stitches in the same column.
To be honest I can't purl in the 'standard' way, combined purling is so much easier for me and knitting through the back is easier as well :) - I prefer to compensate :) in any other situations.

A good video for combined purling is here

http://www.knittinghelp.com/knitting/basic_techniques/purl.php
best wishes,
Silvia





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of troy
Permanent Resident

USA
2474 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2006 :  07:30:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit of troy's Homepage Send of troy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
with combo knitting, you work the stitch as it lies.

in flat knitting, this general means, Knitting through back loop.

when knitting in the round, knit through the front loop.

Drop a bunck of stitches, (or frog) and some are 'mounted the wrong way? NOT in combo. KNIT (or PURL) them the way they lie.

Get really good, and in complex pattern (Lace say) you can make knit the some purls combo style (the easy way) and some purls the 'more conventional way (ie, continental style) then when you need to decrease, the Combo purls get K2tog for \left leaning decreases and the continental purls get k2tog for /right leaning decreases.

and both decreases are smooth, not wonky!

Age 9 (when i learned knitting in the round) i learned how NOT to Twist stitches.) age 15 i learned that for me, a k2tog was a \left leaning decrease, and to sub a K2tog for K1, s1, PSSO, (and at the same time learned several methods for making /right leaning decreases)

Everything you can do in EUROPEAN knitting (and both English and Continental knitter are "European Knitting" school,) you can do in Eastern and Combo School.

There are hundred of TECHNIQUES for hold yarn, needles and making a stitch. all are valid.

NO matter how you knit, STOCKING KNIT is STOCKING KNIT
TWISTED STITCHES are TWISTED STITCHES
LEFT LEANING DECREASEs are LEFT Leaning
RIGHt LEANING DECREASES are Right Leaning
and so on for every aspect of knitting.

Measure/grade/judge the OUT PUT, not the TECHNIQUE.


I've started a blog...
http://golden-apples.blogspot.com/

but you can still just see my photo albums of mostly knitting. http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/oftroy/
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sarakate
Seriously Hooked

USA
818 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2006 :  4:25:33 PM  Show Profile Send sarakate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sbutnarasu

Another problem which bothers me is that all the yarn I've used in England is twisted with an S shape - (S-spun?) and somehow I manage to un-twist the plies on WS ( when purling ). Is this caused by the combined purling method? I do not know another way of purling so I can't really test this :).



Yes, that's exactly what causes it. There are, of course, two ways to wrap the yarn, one clockwise and one counterclockwise. Wrapping in one direction will tighten the twist of the yarn just a bit, while wrapping in the other direction will loosen it just a bit. Because the majority of Western knitters wrap in the same direction on both knits and purls, yarn spun for knitters is generally spun in the direction which slightly tightens the twist when the yarn is wrapped in the direction used by the majority of said knitters (to qualify this still further, I'll say that that's yarn in the UK and the US, and yarns spun elsewhere for those markets -- this may well not be the case for yarns intended primarily for sale in other markets, where combo knitting is more prevalent). Incidentally, most (I'm not sure if it's all, by any means) crocheters wrap the yarn in the opposite direction, and that's the reason why some yarns specifically marketed to crocheters are spun in the opposite direction.

Because combo knitters wrap their purls in this opposite-of-majority direction, they're wrapping in the way that slightly untwists the yarn, for most yarns. This may, especially if the yarn is somewhat loosely spun anyway, lead to unplying or at least a tendency to splitting more easily. It's not, however, a permanent issue -- whether the yarn is twisted tighter or twisted looser as it sits on the needle, once it comes off the needle and the stitch sits flat, the yarn returns to its original degree of twist. It just means that you need to watch a little more closely to prevent split stitches, compared to a purely Western knitter, since you're opening up the plies just a bit.
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sbutnarasu
Chatty Knitter

United Kingdom
163 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2006 :  3:55:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit sbutnarasu's Homepage Send sbutnarasu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
sarakate, thanks a lot for replying to this - it is more clear now, and it makes so much sense.

best wishes,
Silvia


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meme527
New Pal

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2007 :  5:28:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit meme527's Homepage  Send meme527 a Yahoo! Message Send meme527 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sarakate

quote:
Originally posted by sbutnarasu

Another problem which bothers me is that all the yarn I've used in England is twisted with an S shape - (S-spun?) and somehow I manage to un-twist the plies on WS ( when purling ). Is this caused by the combined purling method? I do not know another way of purling so I can't really test this :).



Yes, that's exactly what causes it.


i just discovered this - much to my chagrin - and have had to frog an entire hat!

music: http://www.myspace.com/cecilejohns
photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/memececile
writing:
http://people.tribe.net/memececile
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