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Ceil
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USA
1731 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  9:24:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am looking at a magazine that gives NO range of actual bust sizes for the finished bust sizes listed. Worse, the pattern I would like to make gets "plenty of ease."

Did anyone think that maybe doing a little subtraction might be a good thing? Or that maybe I'd like to buy the right amount of yarn (esp. not too little)? As it is, I have NO idea what size to knit, because I don't know what "plenty of ease" means! I can't target a size, or a yarn amount to buy.

I wrote to the magazine and they don't get it. Oh, in the next issue, they'll define the vague ease designations for all their patterns in one place, but that doesn't do me any good now. They give the bust size of the model, but the finished sizes listed aren's SML, etc, and there is no way to tell which size she's wearing. I'm really hung.

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.

robinstephanie
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1230 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2013 :  08:48:22 AM  Show Profile Send robinstephanie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That sounds so annoying, Ceil. Have you looked in Ravelry to see if anyone else has completed the project? Sometimes I find looking at multiple versions of a finished garment helpful. Reading project notes can be helpful, and sometimes when I find someone has added notes that pertain to what I'm looking for, I've emailed them and very nicely asked a question. I've only done this three times, but all three times the person was *more* than willing to give me her three cents. I've also emailed designers once or twice. Janice Rosema and Marnie McLean were super helpful, Kate Gilbert was not. (This was before I realized she was the editor of Twist. She must have been busy with other stuff!! )

Robinsteph

Different is good. ~Matthew Hoover
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eldergirl
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1797 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2013 :  9:08:36 PM  Show Profile Send eldergirl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Ceil, though, that the amount of ease on the model, and in the instructions is very important. I remember when "Knitting Daily" blog began, and they got a lot of posts about this information being important.
Interweave responded, and has been pretty good about all that.

Just to say, you are not alone, and it sounds like the pattern company needs the kind of pressure that Interweave got several years ago!

Ceil, the schematic numbers combined with the standard sizing from the US standards should give some clue?

Oh wait! Maybe the US standards has numbers for "not much ease", plenty of ease", etc.

Best wishes,

Anna

Life is beautiful.
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Ceil
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1731 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2013 :  9:27:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm afraid it's an Interweave magazine that is in the middle of this!

So I looked at "Knitting in the Old Way" because Priscilla says something there about ease: 4" is snug, 6" is comfy and 8" is loose--but I recall Knitting Daily suggesting that ease can be as much as 10"!

I just went over to Ravely, and no one is in process of knitting the pattern that I'm interested in. Somehow, I am not surprised (but it IS sad!). I sense that leaving out actual bust sizes is an editorial decision, not the designer's, because every pattern lacks this information.

I've written to the designer via Ravelry to see what she has to say.

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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anderknit
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2594 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2013 :  04:32:19 AM  Show Profile Send anderknit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have read this thread several times and I'm having trouble figuring out what the big issue is. The schematic provides finished measurements, right? You know (or can determine) your actual body size. From those two pieces of information, can't you pick a size that provides the ease you want? If you want to have some idea of how different eases look on you, try on some of your existing sweaters and then measure their finished sizes. While it would be nice for the pattern to quantify the suggested ease (rather than saying "plenty", which is really kind of silly), I think it's a personal preference anyway, and you should pick the size to get the look with which you are most comfortable. Measuring an existing sweater is really the best path toward picking the right size, no matter what the pattern might say.

"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.' "
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Ceil
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1731 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2013 :  9:08:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All good points, anderknit. Now go over to Ravelry and observe how the drape of a sweater you want to knit turns out on other knitters. For example, I fell in love with a sweater in an ad, and when I looked it up on Ravelry, several of them didn't fit the knitter the same way and needed to be a bigger size. I became a lot less excited about that pattern (but from looking at the photo in the ad, I think I can redesign it so the fit issue is less of a problem).

I guess for me the issue is that, even though I am not the same size as the model (I'm larger but not obese), I'd like the same kind of drape on my body that she has on hers. The photo would also seem to suggest drape as well as styling that way. And so I do wonder if ease is also a proportional thing: maybe 6" for a 34" bust, but 10" for a 40" bust. (I'm not doing hard math here, just throwing out some numbers to make the point.) Measuring an existing sweater's girth might be okay, but there is still always the issue of the thickness of the knitted fabric: The thicker the fabric (and this looks thick), the more ease there needs to be because the outside dimension of the body tube is greater than its inside dimension. So if my bust is 40" (it is), and the smallest two finished sizes given are 41" and 46" (they are), then I can tell myself to knit either of those two sizes because they are bigger than my bust, right? In reality, 41" will likely hug me with negative ease, and 46" will be a tad snug, both outcomes due to the thickness of the fabric being overlooked.

As it turns out, the next size is 50", and that's where I need to go. (But would I knit to 50" if the largeness of the number throws me off psychologically??) The designer answered my question, and said she wasn't present for the photo shoot of her sweater, but she thought it looked like about 10 inches of ease. NOW I can figure out which size to knit and, more importantly, how much yarn to buy.

Between pre-blocking/post-blocking and ease/fabric thickness, knitting becomes a really involved craft!!

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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socks4all
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1460 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2013 :  05:09:47 AM  Show Profile Send socks4all a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't say that I ever looked for the designer to provide the ease of a garment. I do look at the schematics, then do my own calculations to determine the sizes myself (I'm anal that way). I check the pattern for the number of stitches around the body at the point where the armhole starts. If the sweater is made in pieces, I add the # of sts in each piece, then subtract 2 sts per seam. Then I use the gauge to determine the width. At that point comes the tricky decisions. As you say Ceil, fabric thickness, body proportion, body shape all affect ease. I would add to these how much extra the fabric can be stretched when blocked and how much clothing will be worn under the sweater. I don't like tight clothes except for my bra and panties so I don't knit with less than 8" of ease.
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anderknit
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2594 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2013 :  07:51:40 AM  Show Profile Send anderknit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that people who think knitting is "mindless" should read this thread. Very complex, bordering on the philosophical. I love it! I absolutely agree that the gauge of the knitting and type of fiber also affect desired ease. A sweater made with a fingering weight wool would look very different with ease of X than would a sweater made of bulky weight cotton yarn. Anyway, good luck! Ceil, can you let us know what the pattern is, so we can see it on Ravelry?

"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.' "
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Ceil
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1731 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2013 :  10:03:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What can I say? I'm an electrical engineer's daughter, married to a mechanical engineer! I learned the inner/outer dimension of knitted fabric the hard way: by knitting a pair of socks with a heavier yarn the same as for normal sock yarn. Before that, I didn't understand why "Simple Socks, Plain and Fancy" talked about adding ease to socks. This has to be done with a thick sock yarn! Ah, connecting the dots......

So it may be that 10 inches of ease on the outside, given the thickness of the yarn, means >8< inches of ease on the inside! Anyway, I'm going with 10" of ease.

The pattern I refer to is in knit.wear (Interweave, ISSN 74851-08864) on pages 52-53, the Sloping Hem Boatneck. Last time I looked at Ravelry (last week), no one had knitted it yet. Something to keep an eye on, because...

As long as I'm at it, the other problem I'm having with this pattern is the sloping hem that I love. The pattern begins at the right sleeve and works across to the left sleeve, but the right sleeve is on the left side of the schematic, making the hem slant the opposite way! Seems to me they could have reversed this and typed "BACK" in the middle of the drawing! This pattern seems to be one of those exceptions to the rule of always showing the front of the garment, this time for the knitter's sanity.....I'll probably scan the drawing and reverse it in Adobe Illustrator just to feel better!

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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anderknit
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2594 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2013 :  10:46:20 AM  Show Profile Send anderknit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ceil, there are a bunch of Ravelry projects now - check them out. It's a very interesting sweater, and one that I think would look terrific on lots of different body types. Norah said this in response to a Raveler's question: "With a size 38-40 bust. Id say go for the 50. It should be plenty big. Id go for a little less ease the bigger you are, while still keeping the piece oversized." I think that's helpful advice. Also, beware that there appears to be an error in the pattern/stitch count. Anyway, check out the completed projects, notes, and comments/responses. And have fun!

"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.' "
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technikat
Gabber Extraordinaire

595 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2013 :  5:39:30 PM  Show Profile Send technikat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately, you can't really trust how a sweater looks on the model in magazine shots. I have read that they are often pinned to look good. So you may think the fit is perfect but the sweater might actually be too large for that model. So the model size and size of sweater shown might not give you the info you are looking for.

My FOs
http://www.flickr.com/photos/technikat/
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Ceil
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USA
1731 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2013 :  8:30:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
However, this is already a generous sweater?

The Central Park Hoodie got the once over for the photo shoot. A busty model holding down the front edges of the jacket so it would stay somewhat closed on her. I am really glad I didn't knit the sleeves with fewer stitches. I knitted the whole thing in one piece (including the sleeves) and let the armhole tell me what it wanted: about 18 more stitches than the pattern said. The sleeves would have been skin-tight otherwise.

But, I digress. Right now I am trying to locally bump into the yarn for the sweater that began this thread.

Ceil
(Ravelry: ceilr)
Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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