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 rolling edges
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TricotAnne
New Pal

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2010 :  12:19:20 PM  Show Profile Send TricotAnne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am making a child's sweater with rolled bottom edges and a rolled neckline....all stockinette stitch with size 6 needles and a 50/50 wool-acrylic yarn. The bottom edge keeps on rolling and rolling. I am making a scroll not a sweater, it seems. I keep on ripping and redoing..it keeps on rolling even after I have several inches on the needles. I tried putting ribbing on the bottom but that rolls too. Help! Should I make ribbing with needles two sizes smaller and knit lots of rows of it? This is not the look of the sweater (SchoolGirl Pullover by Ann Budd) so I really want to get this cute rolled edge...but not a forever rolling effect.

Katheroni
Permanent Resident

USA
1407 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2010 :  1:05:06 PM  Show Profile Send Katheroni a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stockinette edges roll, always. That's the nature of the beast.

Blocking will help a little bit with the rolling, but not a whole heck of a lot. My personal experience is that you can block out some of the rolling, but after wearing it for a little while, most of the roll comes right back. So I'm not a big fan of raw stockinette edges unless that's really and truly the look I'm after.

Knitting one or two rows of 1x1 ribbing an inch or so up will help control the rolling.

But really, to avoid the roll completely, don't use a stockinette edge. You could do a hemmed edge, a ribbed edge (and yes, it will take at least an inch or so of ribbing to avoid the rolling), a garter stitch edge, or any number of garter-ground or rib-like edges.

One additional comment -- the original is done in a thick-and-thin yarn. If the texture is extreme, maybe that limits the rolling a tad.
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TricotAnne
New Pal

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2010 :  1:19:07 PM  Show Profile Send TricotAnne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you! Yes, the original is done in a textured yarn and mine is not. Before throwing in the towel..or needles in this case...I will give it one more go and knit stockinette for about an inch, rib 1x1 for two rows and see if that stops the roll at that point. If not, will rip out yet again and just go for a healthy amount of ribbing on smaller needles. This is for a charity project so I am using a machine washable yarn (as requested) and what I have on hand. It is a pretty Italian yarn, nice quality so I hope I can make this work. The two rows of ribbing about an inch up sounds like a great idea. I will remember that! A lot of patterns these days seem to just start right out without the traditional ribbing. I am an old fashioned knitter, used to a traditional look so I have not knit something like this before. Looks cute and quick...but with all my ripping I could be way up the back by now. Sigh.
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Ceil
Permanent Resident

USA
1792 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2010 :  3:35:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The other thing you might try is to create a looser fabric with the yarn you are using, so switch to bigger needles. That will of course change the gauge, so you might have to switch to smaller stitch numbers on the pattern to get everything to come out right. Swatching should tell you a lot (as much as I feel for you starting over once again!).

I'm knitting the Cinxia jacket at Knitty right now, and decided to put plackets on the front because there are none. I'm glad to hear that Katheroni says the rolling will come right back if it isn't finished somehow, no matter how much you block. I'm a firm believer in knitting a piece that doesn't have to be "trained" to do something it doesn't already do naturally. Seems to me blocking ought to be about making what you have look better, rather than to change its current shape.

HTH,

Ceil

Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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Coolj
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
428 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2010 :  04:05:20 AM  Show Profile Send Coolj a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just read Bess's post (same forum) regarding combination knitting and wondered if it might solve TricotAnne's dilemma. Just a thought. Then, I have a friend who knits her purl side on a size smaller needle. She says this keeps her fabric lying flat. Again, just a thought as I've tried neither method.
Juanita
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Ceil
Permanent Resident

USA
1792 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2010 :  9:32:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ceil's Homepage Send Ceil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I suspect the edges would still roll up. The missing piece here is gauge, and while TricotAnne has achieved gauge with her yarn of choice, the fabric may be too dense to prevent rolling. Either change the gauge for larger stitches with the current yarn, or try a thinner yarn on the same needles.

Ceil

Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
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BessH
Permanent Resident

3095 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2010 :  04:19:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit BessH's Homepage Send BessH a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alas, no. Combination knitting won't make any difference in rolling stockinette - it is just always going to roll. I do think that once the sweater is done, seamed, and blocked, it will roll much less, especially if you are using a yarn that's 50% wool. blocking is such a transformative act on knitting. I think gravity, especially when the garment is being worn, will help unroll some of that curl and if it's knit flat and seamed up the sides, the seams will also help reduce the curling.

I can promise you - if you put ribbing on the bottom of the sweater, once it's finished it will not roll up. Of course - you would need more than a row or two of ribbing. One inch would be what you need. and it wouldn't look like the sweater you are trying to make, either.

why not try wetting the piece you've already knit and see what water does to the fabric. don't try to force it, just dunk it in water, gently squeeze till damp and lay it on a towel to dry. don't even take it off the needles. See what you get before you rip again. And be sure to let us know what happens - I'm very curious.

Bess
http://likethequeen.blogspot.com
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achrisvet
Permanent Resident

USA
5986 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2010 :  12:52:27 PM  Show Profile Send achrisvet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I will give it one more go and knit stockinette for about an inch, rib 1x1 for two rows and see if that stops the roll at that point.


I think you will find that this works. I did a sweater with rolled edges and the pattern called for using a smaller needle on that part that's supposed to roll and then doing 3 rows of seed stitch to limit the roll to where you want it to be.
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TricotAnne
New Pal

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2010 :  2:23:03 PM  Show Profile Send TricotAnne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So many good ideas here....I am going to do the "wet the piece and see what happens" thing first, and if I decide to rip yet again I will do the roll part with smaller needles and the seed stitch as achrisvel suggests. The rolling has been somewhat arrested but I am not happy with the look of it. Thanks all....
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Delldgm
New Pal

Australia
17 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  03:12:46 AM  Show Profile Send Delldgm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love the look of rolled edges but hate the constant roll. I have a trick which does tend to keep it to a minimum and it usually works with most things I do. I do the stocking stitch for a deacent lenth to get the nice roll I like then I throw in a purl row on the knit side (rs) for just 1 row. This tends to hold back the roll and you generally cant see it once you have the garment longer. Hope this helps

DellDGM
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norsknitter
New Pal

7 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  03:36:53 AM  Show Profile Send norsknitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another option is to pick up stitches in the back ( one for each purl bump you will see) and knit a hem on after you're done. I usually start it two stitches in on each side so that it doesn't interfere with construction. But go up about 5-6 rows and don't cast off. Take a piece of yarn and stitch by stitch sew it onto the back of the sweater. If you do that, the hem will stay elastic and largely invisable.
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SameKnit
New Pal

1 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  04:27:54 AM  Show Profile Send SameKnit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Meg Swansen teaches what she calls putting in a "speed bump" which is a single row of purl which will let the stockinette roll up into a rolled edge but then stop.

She also says if the whole thing is already knit you can achieve the same thing by doing a crochet slip stitch across there (from the back, I think). Pretty ingenious I thought.
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lisastitch@comcast.net
New Pal

6 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  09:54:17 AM  Show Profile Send lisastitch@comcast.net a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since I haven't seen the pattern, I'm not sure how Ann Budd has you make the rolled hem, but I just made Sally Melville's To-the-Cottage pullover, in The Knitting Experience: the purl stitch, which has a rolled hem. It's reverse stockinette, so you cast on and knit five rows of stockinette stitch, and then reverse your knitting, so the knit side becomes the wrong side, and the purl side is the right side. Then you start knitting your sweater. I really like the way it looks, and it controls the rolling.
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TricotAnne
New Pal

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  10:44:31 AM  Show Profile Send TricotAnne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, lisastitch, Ann Budd says nothing about controlling the roll. She just has you start right out with stockinette stitch on the needles you use for the whole sweater and knit up the length of the sweater. The yarn this pattern was designed for is discontinued: Davos by Tahki.
I am substituting, of course, because although I may have the world's largest stash....wouldn't you know, I just don't have Davos. This pattern was originally published in Interweave Knits Winter 2000/2001. It just popped up again on their site a couple of weeks ago as part of a package of freebie patterns: 8 Free Knitting Patterns for Children. I am making it for a charity project which requires easy care yarn. I am using a 50 wool/50 acrylic. A nice yarn with nice definition but it does roll. I have learned so much from all of these posts. At this point I have finished the back and I am on a closing-in deadline so I don't want to begin all over again...but I might. I did put in two rows of 1x1 rib and it seemed to have stopped the roll in its tracks...but lo and behold...it is now rolling beyond that. I am going to start the front with the purl idea and see if that helps. I have enough yarn to knit up the back again at this point. Frogging the back will be last resort. I am a very fast knitter so I might just bite the bullet and start anew. Sigh. Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I have Sally Melville's books so I will also go take a look at the To-The Cottage pullover.
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TricotAnne
New Pal

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  10:49:33 AM  Show Profile Send TricotAnne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I don't mean to imply that I will apply one fix to the front and one to the back! I was thinking of starting the front now with one of the above fixes and if that works, I will redo the back. But, it just occured to me, due to my deadline, that I should just make the sleeves now with the "row of purl" idea and if that works I can redo the back and proceed with the same fix for the front. If time runs out on me, I will keep the back, do the same two rows of rib up one inch on the front and use the crochet chain stitch through the back of both front and back to see if that holds it. I will also try to the wetting of the knitting, pin and allow to dry before making a whole new back. I am making a size child's 6 so it is a bit knitting...not a little baby sweater!
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Black Sheep
New Pal

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  11:35:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Black Sheep's Homepage Send Black Sheep a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing I didn't see mentioned is yarns react differently. Some are destined to roll, period.
Kudos on your efforts!


linda lee sparkman
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marianne_8_11
New Pal

0 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  12:28:21 PM  Show Profile Send marianne_8_11 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have successfully made many infant and children's sweaters with a rolled edge that *stops* by knitting the first inch to inch and a half in stockinette on needles a size down from the size used for the body of the sweater. Then, still on the smaller needles, I knit an inch of 2x2 rib, then switch to the larger needles for the remainder of the sweater. I also use the smaller size needles with an inch of 2x2 rib and a rolled stockinette edge for the sleeve cuffs and neck. I suspect that only two rows of the rib will not do the trick.
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TricotAnne
New Pal

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  2:14:29 PM  Show Profile Send TricotAnne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Marianne: this makes sense to me. Somewhere, somehow, I am remembering a pattern with a rolled edge that began with the smaller sized needles. I don't think I actually made one up, but you have triggered a memory in me about this. An inch of 2x2 rib sounds like a lot in a little sweater, but the two rows of 1x1 which seemed to do the trick at first, are just not holding back the roll now that I have finished this back piece. Black sheep is right too....some yarns are just destined to roll!! Sigh, double sigh....
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Mocha
Permanent Resident

Singapore
2903 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2010 :  8:43:54 PM  Show Profile Send Mocha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I remember someone wrote to say she sewed ribbon at the back and that cured the rolling..
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TricotAnne
New Pal

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2010 :  10:15:26 AM  Show Profile Send TricotAnne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just had to revisit this topic after so many clever suggestions. Here is how it all played out: I dunked the back piece in water and wet blocked it. This fixed the roll at the bottom beautifully. I suspect it might not hold it after the garment is washed for the first time. This is a charity knit that has to go to Africa and I am on a deadline with it along with another little sweater I am trying to finish off. So, I knit up the front in the same fashion and blocked it the same way. So, front and back are the same. For the sleeves, I tried SameKnit and Dellgm's ideas. Worked perfectly...even before blocking. I dropped down 2 needle sizes, put in a few rows of SS worked a little more tightly knit than my usual rhythm, then a purl row (reverse SS) and then switched over to the proper sized needles. Worked like a charm. I have a nice little roll at the bottom of the sleeves and it stops right at that right sided purl row. Thank you all for your help. For this particular yarn and this gauge, this technique worked well. I am open as well to trying out the others depending on the yarn type.
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Schaeferyarnlover
Gabber Extraordinaire

513 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2010 :  09:47:04 AM  Show Profile Send Schaeferyarnlover a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is it possible the rolling problem is caused by your yarn? I knit one sweater with acrylic yarn and it did not block well.
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