Knitter's Review Forums
  The online community for readers of Knitter's Review.
  This week: Can felt be fixed?
   > Have you subscribed yet?
Knitter's Review Forums
KR Home | My Profile | Register | Active Topics | Private Messages | Search | FAQ | Want to make Betty happy?
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your username or password?

 All Forums
 Spinner Central
 Spinning Techniques
 Semi-embarassing!
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

niter
Warming Up

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  08:34:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit niter's Homepage Send niter a Private Message
I recently purchased my first wheel and I find that I am having one of the troubles i was having on the spindle....When I spin, I have trouble pulling back on the roving to make a uniform, thinner sized yarn.

Bulky? I can do that quite well! I find that I am spinning, and when it is time to pull back, nothing happens, as if it is all caught up with what is going into the twist. There is no fluidity when I am spinning and it is quite frustrating. Upon trying my first wheel, the spinner mentioned something I was doing incorrectly (and helped me fix it) and the spinning was fantastic! However, that was last june and I am back to my old ways!

Help!

My Knitting/Crafting Blog
http://thewittyknit.typepad.com

Sell crazy someplace else...we're all stocked up here - Melvin Udall (Jack Nicholson), As Good As It Gets

angelcooper@hotmail.com
Gabber Extraordinaire

541 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  08:48:24 AM  Show Profile Send angelcooper@hotmail.com a Private Message
Hi there, My first question is to ask if you are predrafting the roving so that it is already starting to slide before you start spinning. Also, what tyoe of wheel do you have, you may neeed to adjust it so that the fiber is not pulled in so quickly. Also, I find that I do better with spinning some fibers better than others for thin yarn.

Just some thoughts that I have.


Angel
Knitting and spinning in the Shenandoah Valley

My blog - http://vaknittingangel.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page

danspun
Chatty Knitter

101 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  09:26:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit danspun's Homepage Send danspun a Private Message
From what I understand from your post, there could be a couple of things you can look at. It will be harder to do a finer yarn if you allow too much of the spin to get into the fiber. You may want to make sure you are pinching the twisted yarn before drafting out some more fiber. Also, you may want to play with the tension on your wheel. If there is too much tension it will be pulling the yarn in before you have a chance to work up enough spin in the finer yarn (usually causing it to break). If there is not enough spin, you'll just be spinning and spinning and it won't take up any yarn (some of this depends, too, if you spin with a double drive or with scotch tension).

Keep trying different variations, because different fibers are going to react differently to the type of yarn you are wanting to create.

My blog:
http://www.sattler-reimer.com/spinknit/bBlog

My shop:
http://www.sattler-reimer.com
Go to Top of Page

niter
Warming Up

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  2:22:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit niter's Homepage Send niter a Private Message
Thanks for the responses!!

quote:
My first question is to ask if you are predrafting the roving so that it is already starting to slide before you start spinning. Also, what tyoe of wheel do you have, you may neeed to adjust it so that the fiber is not pulled in so quickly. Also, I find that I do better with spinning some fibers better than others for thin yarn.


I am predrafting the roving, but perhaps I need to work on that more.

I am using a Louet S70 (which is similiar to the current S75). I have played with the brake on the front and it has helped significantly. I am not quite sure which ratio I should be using either! LOL, I sound so lost. When I purchased the wheel, I was invited to attend the local spinner's guild, but I want to AT LEAST be able to spin somewhat before going!

I have tried two rovings...I forgot which the first was, but the second is an Ashland bay roving. I have been able to spin both on my navajo spindle.

quote:
From what I understand from your post, there could be a couple of things you can look at. It will be harder to do a finer yarn if you allow too much of the spin to get into the fiber. You may want to make sure you are pinching the twisted yarn before drafting out some more fiber. Also, you may want to play with the tension on your wheel. If there is too much tension it will be pulling the yarn in before you have a chance to work up enough spin in the finer yarn (usually causing it to break). If there is not enough spin, you'll just be spinning and spinning and it won't take up any yarn (some of this depends, too, if you spin with a double drive or with scotch tension).

Keep trying different variations, because different fibers are going to react differently to the type of yarn you are wanting to create.


The latter part you have described is exactly what is happening--except that I do pinch my yarn. It just seems that what is behind the "pinch" is already incorporated into the yarn in front. Then the yarn gets bigger and thicker OR I pull on it and it snaps!

I have another question too! When I go to spin, I have been spining so the wheel goes clockwise. Is this correct? Sometimes, when I stop and try to start up, the wheel tries to go counter clockwise! How can I stop this? It is *just* when I am starting up so I have taken to tapping the wheel clockwise with my left foot when I start up!]

My Knitting/Crafting Blog
http://thewittyknit.typepad.com

Sell crazy someplace else...we're all stocked up here - Melvin Udall (Jack Nicholson), As Good As It Gets
Go to Top of Page

yarnlover
Permanent Resident

1753 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  5:11:43 PM  Show Profile Send yarnlover a Private Message
When you wheel starts to go counter clockwise, you are doing the right thing - manually get it going in the right direction. I have another model of Louet and find that this wheel is really easy to keep going in the desired direction, but occasionally it reverses. I think lots of practice will help resolve this problem.

Regarding Ashland Bay, you probably have top rather than roving. I won't say that I'm 100% correct but I believe their fiber is all top rather than roving. I find that it requires a bit more predrafting than roving. I recommend splitting it into about 6-8 strips, then very gently predrafting those thin strips. That works well for me as this top is very dense and really needs to be loosened up for it to slide well. Good luck.

See My Stuff: Here

Go to Top of Page

BessH
Permanent Resident

3095 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2005 :  6:50:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit BessH's Homepage Send BessH a Private Message
When the twist gets past my pinching fingers and begins to enter the fiber supply I stop my wheel, break off the fiber supply, slide my pinch forward (towards the already spun fiber), let the little bit of top or roving dangle from the pinching fingers and unwind. Then I draft it out to a thickness similar to what had already been (successfully) spun and resume treadling. Then I reattach the fiber supply and continue drafting.

Those Ashland Bay fibers are top and I often spin them over the fold to create a more uniform yarn. Here's a link:

http://www.graftonfibers.com/fold.htm

When I spin the top from the long piece of fiber, I almost always split it lengthwise, as was reccommended above, and then predraft it a little. If I get another fat wad of slightly twisted fiber in my drafting hand I know it's nearly always a sign that I'm treadling too fast. And if I get anxious about it I'll probably treadle even faster before I remember to stop - smooth things out - and begin again more slowly.

Though I prefered those smooth silky fibers most when I began spinning, I've come to love the tangled fibers of roving or bats far more. They spin faster, rounder, with more consistent thickness for me and produce a nicer knitting yarn too - with far more springy bounce to them.

The main thing is to practice - and to not worry if you feel clumsy when you go to the spinning guild. That's where you'll meet the folk who can help you get better and every single one of them once was a beginner just like you.

Every time I sit down at the wheel I learn something new. Good luck.

Bess
http://likethequeen.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

petiteflower
Chatty Knitter

USA
297 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2005 :  6:51:40 PM  Show Profile Send petiteflower a Private Message

I have been thinking about this problem you are having with the twist getting into the fiber supply ahead of you, I have a couple of suggestions. The first you may not need to hear, but perhaps it would be helpful to you or to some other beginner who happens to read it.

It might help you to back up a bit and start afresh at teaching yourself to spin, or at least get you better prepared for meeting with your local group who will no doubt take you right under their wing. If you take things step by step you will not be trying to juggle so many new elements at once. I recommend that you sit at your wheel and treadle it, only treadle it, for 20 minutes at a time, once or more a day, for a week or even two. Let this action become more familiar. When it becomes second nature, you can put more of your attention into what your hands are doing.

The next step is to tie a length (five yards is OK) of already-spun yarn that is 2 or more plies, onto the bobbin on the flyer. Any plain untextured commercial yarn will do. Thread it through the orifice and pull it all through. Then, pretend that this yarn is fiber you are spinning. You will start out by unspinning it, having your wheel spinning clockwise because it was undoubtably plied counterclockwise. Work at setting the tension on your wheel so that it is pulling the yarn into the bobbin at a comfortable rate, not too much yanking but enough to pull the yarn in before it begins to twist back the other way. When you've untwisted the whole length, pull it all back out through the orifice and then spin it again in the opposite direction, this time putting twist back in. Don't worry about getting it plied back perfectly. This excercise is for getting you used to the way your wheel pulls at what is in your hand, treadling and working your hands simultaneously, and learning how to adjust tension. Just keep doing it for 20 minutes one or more times every day for a few days until you really know how to adjust your wheel's degree of "take up". By now you are much more comfortable at the wheel, and much more used to keeping your wheel going while working your hands.

Now you are set up much better for showing up at the spinner's meeting and getting the useful pointers on actually spinning fiber. Here are a few tips from me: yes your fiber is combed top, Ashland bay sells nothing but top. I have spun my fair share of top!! I love smooth yarns that have been very precisely spun (I love other stuff too!). I NEVER pre-draft top (unless I'm blending colors), I never spin it from the fold, I hold the full thickness of it lightly in my right hand. I have the thumb and tips of the fingers of my right hand close to the drafting zone but they are not clasping the fiber, they are just there for very gentle assistance. I use my left thumb and forefinger to draw fibers from the fiber supply. I do very little of pulling the fiber supply back away from the wheel, instead, I am pulling fibers out from the fiber supply and toward the wheel. With every treadle of the wheel, I draw out fiber from the main supply, the thickness and the length of what I draw is determined by what yarn I am making. The ratio that I have chosen and the amount of take-up I have adjusted for are also determined by the yarn I am making. I don't have a thought as to when I should feed the yarn into the orifice, it just gets fed in inch by inch. This method of spinning is called the inchworm method or the "short draw" method.

As far as keeping the twist out of the fiber supply, the movements are: With thumb and forefinger of the left hand pinch onto some fiber and draw it out from the fiber supply (length and thickness determined by the yarn you are making). Let up on your pinch just slightly and then let the thumb and forefinger slide back toward the fiber supply, with the twist going into these freshly drawn fibers right under the tips of your left thumb and forefinger. The twist is going to want to keep going, you use your left-hand fingers to stop it by pinching right at the base of the fibers you just drew. OK, there you are back at the fiber supply. While all this was going on you will have treadled once. Now, as you begin the next treadle, draw out another bit of fiber, just like before and repeat, repeat, repeat!!!

And there you are with all this fiber in your hand. You will find that it is not difficult to work gradually back and forth across the fiber supply. Combed top is not difficult to work with when using the short draw method.
Go to Top of Page

Valk_scot
Permanent Resident

United Kingdom
1281 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2005 :  01:12:14 AM  Show Profile Send Valk_scot a Private Message
One thing to remember about Louet wheels is that they have a very strong take-up, because they`re bobbin driven. Loosen the leather tension strap until it`s not biting at at all and that will give you far more time to do the drafting.

As to ratios, when you`re a beginner the best ratio is the slowest one ie put the drive band on the biggest whorl. And treadle slooooowwwllllyyy.....!

I`ve only been spinning since Feburary,so there will be better and more experienced advice above. However to add my mite....I`m not even attempting to spin using the long draw technique (pulling out the fibre in the long sweep) yet! I`ve concentrated on learning to spin using the inchworm method...pinch front fingers, open back ones, draft out two or three inches of fibre, depending on staple length, close back fingers, open front ones to let the twist run up (You`re treadling during this, yes), slide front fingers up to back ones, pinch front fingers, repeat etc etc.

It`s very controllable and you can spin very, very fine like this. Just try not to go too fast. I don`t predraft, because most of the time I work from rolags.We don`t get the huge selection of premade rovings here in the UK or indeed places to send fleece to be processed either, so we learn to work from self combed fobres pretty quickly! Rolags are nice and loose to work from.

When I look at the yarns the experienced spinners in our group can make, I`m amazed. And they spin with such style! But then again, some of them have been spinning for forty or fifty years so they`ve had a bit more practice than me.

Val.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_21.gif[/img]
Go to Top of Page

niter
Warming Up

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2005 :  10:20:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit niter's Homepage Send niter a Private Message
Thanks so much! Saturday, I found out that if I sit 12" further back I CAN spin. Slowly, but it is possible. I have spun up a bit of really rough pencil roving--turned out to be very good practice. Then some pretty gold fleece that came with my wheel. I *think* I am getting the hang of it!

[img]a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/50343318@N00/55498793"[/img]

Thank you SOO much!

My Knitting/Crafting Blog
http://thewittyknit.typepad.com

Sell crazy someplace else...we're all stocked up here - Melvin Udall (Jack Nicholson), As Good As It Gets
Go to Top of Page

Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2005 :  10:55:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
Something that new spinners often aren't told is that they need to sit back away from the wheel. I've seen so many spinners sitting hunched over their wheels - AUGH! Not only does that make it harder to spin, but it has to be hurting their spines, too. Whenever I hear people saying that they didn't buy X wheel because the orifice was too high or two low, I know that they're sitting WAY too close to the wheel - orifice height should be irrelvant if you're sitting a proper distance from your wheel.

Lissa

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act. -- George Orwell


Oh, and I now have a blog:http://knittnlissa.typepad.com/knittnlissa/
Go to Top of Page

Shelia
Permanent Resident

USA
2366 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2005 :  11:06:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shelia's Homepage Send Shelia a Private Message
Well, Lissa, I've said that about a couple of wheels, and I normally spin 2-3 feet away from the orifice. I do agree that spinning within 12" of the orifice is something most beginners do(including most of us as beginners, I imagine), but there are some wheels that, because of the configuration of the treadles and the orifice, are difficult for taller people to use comfortably. If the treadles are designed in a way that makes spinning uncomfortable with longer legs, then the distance from the orifice is irrelevant.

But I do agree that spinning 6" from the orifice is usually going to make it difficult to make the yarn that you want, so many spinners move back naturally as they spin more and become less tense.



Shelia
www.letstalkstash.blogspot.com
Go to Top of Page

niter
Warming Up

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2005 :  4:47:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit niter's Homepage Send niter a Private Message
In my case, I sat where I see all the other spinners sit in pictures. Then I started thinking that one of the advantages of my height was the ability to do a really long draw with my long arms, so I inched back another 12". Then it all clicked for me!

My Knitting/Crafting Blog
http://thewittyknit.typepad.com

Sell crazy someplace else...we're all stocked up here - Melvin Udall (Jack Nicholson), As Good As It Gets
Go to Top of Page

celia
Permanent Resident

Australia
2454 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2005 :  5:28:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit celia's Homepage Send celia a Private Message
I'm not niter but I'd like to thank everyone who has posted all this wonderfuul advice. I am still learning and it's great to read other more experienced people talk about spinning. I always learn something new!

Thanks
celia

My blog is here:
http://celiaknits.blogspot.com
I am destashing here:
http://celias-basket.blogspot.com/
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Knitter's Review Forums © 2001-2014 Knitter's Review Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.66 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000
line This week's bandwidth
kindly brought to you by


and by knitters like you.
How can I sponsor?


line subscribe to Knitter's Reviwe