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 What about library books?
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Knit and Purl Grrl
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
414 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  4:36:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Knit and Purl Grrl's Homepage Send Knit and Purl Grrl a Private Message
What about stuff you get from the library? Let's say I borrow a book and am making, say, "The Stupid Baby Bonnet." Can I make a photocopy of that pattern to carry with me while I have checked the book out? If so, must I destroy the copy after I return the book to the library?
Any thoughts much appreciated... this has been very enlightening!


Lain
Knit & Purl Grrl
visit me at http://knitandpurlgrrl.blogs.com/my_weblog/

Atavistic
Permanent Resident

6604 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  5:00:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Atavistic's Homepage Send Atavistic a Private Message
Search "copyright" and you'll get a million other threads that cover this already.

Here's one to start you off:
http://knittersreview.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29408&SearchTerms=,copyright

This one even has links to OTHER threads within it:
http://knittersreview.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=17140

A good friend: You knit faster than most women shop.
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Ditzy Girl
Permanent Resident

USA
4723 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  6:49:16 PM  Show Profile Send Ditzy Girl a Private Message
From what others have said on this forum when you ck out a library book and copy the pattern for use you do not destroy the copy when you take the book back.

Zola, Seattle, Wash.

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Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  7:01:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
I don't think that's correct, Zola. You can't keep the copy after you return the book.

Lissa

"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is a little like expecting the bull not to attack you because you are a vegetarian." --Dennis Wholey

Oh, and I now have a blog:http://knittnlissa.typepad.com/knittnlissa/
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glccafar
Seriously Hooked

825 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  7:12:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit glccafar's Homepage Send glccafar a Private Message
Yes you can, Lissa. Fair use.
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twiggyann
Gabber Extraordinaire

427 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2005 :  9:19:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit twiggyann's Homepage Send twiggyann a Private Message
I think fair use would be a good argument in terms of the entire book's copyright -- it's a small enough portion to qualify. However, in terms of the copyright that exists on the individual pattern, copying the entire pattern wouldn't qualify for fair use.

Lesley

Twig's Knitting Blog
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Ditzy Girl
Permanent Resident

USA
4723 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2005 :  05:56:08 AM  Show Profile Send Ditzy Girl a Private Message
Logic would say finish the sweater and throw away the copy. Your not copying to sell the pattern you copied to knit the sweater. So I still say finish the sweater throw the copy away.
You might want to search because I know there was a big discussion on this very thing not too long ago.

Zola, Seattle, Wash.

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Knit and Purl Grrl
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
414 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2005 :  09:47:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit Knit and Purl Grrl's Homepage Send Knit and Purl Grrl a Private Message
Thanks, all-
I meant to post this original question to the "swapping patterns" thread but ended up creating a new topic instead. I didn't see anything on that particular thread, but I'll do a search to see if there's info elsewhere.



Lain
Knit & Purl Grrl
visit me at http://knitandpurlgrrl.blogs.com/my_weblog/
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Calamintha
Permanent Resident

USA
2886 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2005 :  6:54:02 PM  Show Profile Send Calamintha a Private Message
I worked for many years in libraries and am familiar with copyright rules regarding photocopying of library books.

"Fair Use" stipulates that you may photocopy a chapter out of a book or an article from a magazine for your own personal use (not for sale). You may not photocopy an entire book or magazine unless it is no longer for sale at a fair price. In other words you may copy an entire book if it is out of print and used copies are selling at collector's prices (vastly more than the original price).

I know of no stipulation that requires you to destroy your photocopies after the book or magazine is returned. Libraries are exempt from any liability that arises from a patron committing a copyright infringement so long as they have notices reminding patrons of the copyright laws near the photocopy machines.

There is some more information from the Stanford Libraries here:

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter7/7-d.html
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Atavistic
Permanent Resident

6604 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2005 :  7:09:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Atavistic's Homepage Send Atavistic a Private Message
So we're free to copy the Woman Who Sues' books? Hmm...I bet she'd still come after us...

"Is that my Not-Mine Sweater? Whoever gets that Not-Mine Sweater is very lucky."
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Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2005 :  7:20:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
I gues that would depend on which of the voices in She Who Will Not Be Named's head are dominant at the time...

Lissa

"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is a little like expecting the bull not to attack you because you are a vegetarian." --Dennis Wholey

Oh, and I now have a blog:http://knittnlissa.typepad.com/knittnlissa/
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SerMom
Permanent Resident

Canada
6412 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2005 :  6:54:04 PM  Show Profile Send SerMom a Private Message

quote:
"Is that my Not-Mine Sweater? Whoever gets that Not-Mine Sweater is very lucky."
Amanda, I have to ask. Is that a direct quote from MR. A.?


Barbara
It's a feature, not a bug.

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elspethm
Chatty Knitter

USA
323 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2005 :  06:38:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit elspethm's Homepage Send elspethm a Private Message
I haven't read the other posts about copyright but I also work in libraries and I know they pay lots more than one single person, at least for magazines, because it is expected that "fair use" will apply and people will copy part of a book/magazine for their own use.

Although I can say that if I heard of someone who was so against fair use that they wouldn't let me copy one pattern out of a book (98% of the time I don't even use the pattern anyway) for my own use I wouldn't be buying their books again! I can understand someone not wanting their pattern/book to be used to sell products or copyed willy nilly, but if they have a problem with their book being in the library at all, knowing that people might copy a pattern or two, that is something to take up with their publisher to make sure the book is not added to a library.

What a [what is the expression I'm looking for here?] of worms we have to open every time someone wants to do the right thing but also is able to borrow a knitting (recipe, other type of pattern) book from the library.



Elspeth
Silicon Valley, CA
http://ladybug326.blogspot.com
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