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berlinknits
Chatty Knitter
230 Posts |
 Posted - 01/23/2003 : 11:04:47 AM
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I know this subject will probably have a lot of opinions on both sides but I'm wondering what the advantages are to knitting in the round versus knitting flat and seaming? Do people knit sweaters in the round just to avoid sewing seams or are there other advantages? I'm curious. Also, do sweaters fit better sewn in sections and seamed or knit in the round? I'd love to hear people's experiences and why you choose the method you do.
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fmarrs
Guardian angel
USA
9776 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 11:54:00 AM
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I prefer knitting in the round and avoid seams at all costs. In the beginning it was because of the difficulty I had in making neat seams, but now even though I learned how to make neat and even invisible seams, I still choose knitting in the round. I prefer the knit stitch to the purl stitch, and it is the best for mindless knitting, going round and round and round. The only place that I have found seams to be desirable in to give support is to the shoulders and I prefer a 3 needle bind off here for that purpose. As to the fit, no technique will replace poor planning, but the neck down, raglan sweater will fit most everyone and avoid the necessity of knowing how wide the shoulders are. Personally, I think the drop shoulder design makes most people just look wider and well fitting shoulders are more flattering. But you need individual measurements to get a well fitting, set in sleeve. Besides you have all those advantages of using circular needles, altough I do flat knitting with them also.
I think if your sweater needs seaming to have a better shape, you need to rethink and replan your sweater.
I make a lot of sweaters for my grandchildren and I love to knit one and hand it to them and ask them to explain how I did it without any seams. (I kitchener the shoulders on these)
fran
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Lissa
Permanent Resident
USA
4942 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 12:27:44 PM
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History is being made, and you're here to see it, folks - for the first time, I don't completely agree with Fran! I knit flat with circs for two main reasons:
1. I can almost always tell when a sweater is knit in the round - they don't hang as well, or as straight, as seamed sweaters.
2. I look ghastly in raglan sleeves - they emphasize my narrow shoulders and my large midsection.
Of course, I completely agree that a poorly-planned sweater, no matter the method, is likely to also be an unappealing sweater, my feelings of utmost respect and admiration for Fran have changed not a whit! 
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kdcrowley
Permanent Resident
USA
4773 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 2:24:41 PM
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I look so much better in a raglan sweater due to wide shoulders and back....I have to go up 1-2 sizes for shoulder fit for set in sleeves.
Have not yet made a top-down sweater, but want to figure that one out as it is probably the best for me. Also really want to figure out how the wide bands on the raglan are done.
I have the yarn, but am a little afraid to start due to time, other projects, and the way I love the yarn.
Kelley
Everywhere you go, there you are! Imagine that.... |
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Hello Knitty
Permanent Resident
1069 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 3:23:45 PM
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All I've ever knit in the round are hats and I see no reason to do them on straight needles. It's faster and easier.
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mbmoody
Gabber Extraordinaire
583 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 5:29:03 PM
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| I like intarsia projects, which have to be knit flat. Knitting in the round can go a lot faster, though. |
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berlinknits
Chatty Knitter
230 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 5:38:29 PM
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My reason for bringing up this subject was because a woman at my knitter's group just finished this intricate sweater knit in the round and the stitches are absolutely beatiful but the sweater hangs kind of funny compared to sweaters you see people wearing ( store bought). I was just wondering if the techique produced a superior product or if it was just ease.
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fmarrs
Guardian angel
USA
9776 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 6:44:30 PM
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I have found that most problems relating to the hang of a sweater are problems of fit rather than the technique used. Of course if the guage is unsuitable for the yarn and makes an unstable fabric, that is something else all together. But lace is our most unstable fabric yet we do not find it necessary to stabalize it by adding additional seams. Sometimes I think we tend to forget that we are constructing a three dimensial sculpture when we knit, yet we make few if any modifications for the wide variety of lumps, bumps, curves and indentations we are covering with it. Most of the time when I see an ill fitting sweater, I can tell where a little shortrowing, or more accurate use of a tape measure would have made a big difference. In most cases all they needed was a little more ease. I wonder if you could pick out the difference between two identical sweaters, one with seaming and one without. Anyone knitting for twins?
fran
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Norma Ward
New Pal
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 8:40:56 PM
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Yes, I as well knit a lot of sweaters on circular needles for ease of movement. But Sweaters on the round do stretch and shag. To prevent this I do a purl stitch on the side seams. If it’s a heavy yarn I run a cable up the side seams. These two techniques allow the sweater to hold shape plus add interest.
N. Holm Ward |
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MarionB
New Pal
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 9:19:17 PM
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I've listened to these two sides for years. I'm a dedicated Elizabeth Zimmermann follower as well as following Meg Swansen, her daughter. EZ's sweaters are still gorgeous and Meg's are absolutely lovely. None of the carps about hanging funny, for their garments. I know that one technique that EZ promoted was to drop one row of stitches at the side and hook them up--two by two--for a 'folding line.' My youngest was home this weekend and found an old sweater of mine and asked if she could have it. It's nearly threadbare and I was going to donate it to charity. I let her have it. It hangs fine! No dropped/re-hooked stitches and certainly no seams.
I agree that if a sweater hangs funny it is the lack of skill on the part of the knitter, not the fault of knitting in the round.
I like the uninterrupted fabric that 'round' knitting can give. I have my girlfriend's pair of socks to mend--with a seam running from toe to back of ribbing at top of sock! I don't care to imagine what that seam feels like under foot. I'll reknit the toe in the round. Mittens with a seam up the side look dorky.
There are techniques for seaming that make them almost invisible. It's difficult for me to pay attention to lessons on 'how to' when one can easily do without. Except for intarsia--then one needs to go back and forth.
Another fallout of flat knitting is that most don't realize their gauge on the knit side differs from that on the purl; so you see the ripples from the two gauges all through a stockinette piece which really rubs me the wrong way, when I'd rather applaud. I find I must use one size smaller needle on the purl side to avoid the ripples.
One friend insists on knitting in pieces. . .flat knitting. She takes great pleasure in finishing each piece--like milestones. She is skilled enough that her knit things always look quite good. For me to knit a sweater in pieces, I'd have to have both front pieces of a cardigan going at the same time on two sets of needles to insure they're knit at the same tension. It would drive me nuts trying to knit them separately and have to keep counting or measuring to see that they matched.
Hope this helps you decide. Marion
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welshladygwen@citlink.net
New Pal
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 11:25:22 PM
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I generally don't tackle BIG projects like sweaters to fit the Plus size woman I am. However, I am spinning for a project... to knit [in the round] a Philosopher's Wool sweater out of yarn from my sheep Sweetie who died this year. I may well need to do some shortrow shaping, as I'm busty, but we'll see.
My fav projects to knit are socks. :>) I have my "generic" pattern & fit everything else into it. I love the feel of the sock needles, the way the patterns pop up & the heel stitches... esp in a subtly variegated yarn. I cannot imagine doing these on 2 needles. ICK
I do believe that it is a matter of design knowledge that many of us lack, rather than poor knitting skills [altho' there are those, too]. I've found Maggie Righietti's books to be invaluable... right up there w/ EZ & Meg's.
Also, there IS a way to do intarsia in the round, but I'm not sure how it is done... Jennifer |
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BessH
Permanent Resident
3095 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 04:37:57 AM
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Fran has beautifully expressed all my reasons for knitting in the round except one - I like to be able to "read" my knitting. I love patternwork and cables and I like to be able to see what comes next rather than to have to check back with a chart. Eventually I hope I can learn to make up my colorwork patterns as I go along - did it on a little watch cap top this christmas and I have never had such fun making anything!
A well hanging sweater is the result of skilled knitting, measuring and shaping, far more than from the choice between flat or round knitting. That and the choice of style - for no design looks good on everybody. I can't wear raglans, you may not be able to wear drop shoulder, another looks stunning in set-in sleeves. Just as we need to know what colors look good on us, we need to know what design styles flatter.
There are reasons I prefer to knit somethings flat and all the rest circular - mainly when the yarn and garment are extremely large and heavy. I don't enjoy lugging the entire bulky yarn 50 inch thing around - my hands grew so tired making a bulky weight sweater for DH, heaving all that garment round and round.
There are several ways to do intarsia in the round but the only one I would be willing to try is one I came up with myself when I wanted to try garter stitch "in the round". It's flawed, but "do-able". It creates a sort of seamline where the yarn joins - about as noticible as the "jog" when doing stranded colorwork. You use a short row technique with wraps. Here's how it works:
*Knit your round, adding the different bobbins where you need
When you get to the joining stitch slip that stitch to the right needle
Bring the working yarn to the front between needles
Place the slipped stitch back on the left needle
Take the working yarn to the back between the needles
Turn the whole thing around and purl back around
(You'll find the ends of your intarsia patterns right where you need them)
When you get to the wrapped stitch, slip the needle into the wrap, into the stitch, and purl them both together
Slip the next stitch from the right needle
Bring the working yarn to the front between the needles
Place the slipped stitch back onto the left needle
Take the working yarn to the back between the needles
Turn the whole thing around and you are now ready to Knit one round
When you get to the wrapped stitch, slip the needle into the wrap, into the stitch, and knit them both together
Repeat from *
because you are slipping 2 different stitches, each one every other round, a little distortion occurs, but really no more, as I said, than the "jog" one frequently sees in stranded colorwork. In any case, you will have to purl half the rounds or half the rows in intarsia but at least you will be able to choose your prefered technique. and this is particularly good technique for intarsia on socks.
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calla1984@yahoo.com
New Pal
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 05:22:55 AM
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| I'm probably the worst person to ask that because I always knit with two needles and then I seam the "old fashioned" way..that is, by "backstitching". I am almost afraid to try knitting in the round as I've knitted on two needles for about 61 years. Sorry I wasn't much help. |
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raineyolson@mac.com
New Pal
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 05:50:53 AM
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| I often knit sweaters in the round -- ganseys, fair isle, or anything else -- but just as often knit flat pieces. It's a matter of preference, mood, and fitting technique to what you want to knit. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Neither is perfect all the time. Fitting problems aren't usually a result of knitting in the round; the one thing I've occasionally notice from garments knit in the round is a tendency to "twist" when worn. I haven't had that problem however. |
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run10k
New Pal
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 06:33:59 AM
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I know this isn't exactly the kind of response you're looking for, but I prefer flat knitting, but knit almost exclusively on circular needles. I can NEVER seem to get the starting stitch to look good. I like circs because: I only have one piece of equipment to keep up with (vs two straight needles), I don't elbow anyone when I'm knitting on an airplane, and I don't have to use point protectors. I just let the "poetry in progress" hang between the needles.
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Snowcat
New Pal
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 06:34:11 AM
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| I honestly like both styles. I find that knitting in the round is great for a mindless project. I make hats for the local shelter and all of them heve been in the round. However, I have recentally learned to do stranded color work (Yipiee) and made a headband in the round, I was bothered by the fact that the rows didn't line up. So, I did the second one flat. It took a little longer but the results were better. I am currently working on a sweater for me (1st one I keep) and the sleeves are in the round. I haven't even gotten to the sleves yet but have tried on sweaters with sleves made both ways and like the fit of "in the round" better. As with seams, I learned how to make "invisible" ones so they don't bother me. I have to sew seams to finish the sides and shoulders of a sweater so a few more aren't a big deal. My opinion might change after I finish my current project. |
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chrisknits
New Pal
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 09:11:32 AM
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My take on this is there are times and reason to do both. I can't imagine doing a Fair Isle flat! Too much purling with 2 colors would have me committed. But I can't imagine doing a set in sleeve in the round-not a big fan of short rows. So if I am doing a set in sleeve it will be knit flat, or sometimes knit in the round up to the underarm and then knit flat. For some reason I have no problem with my knit/purl gauge, it is the same as my knit in the round gauge.
I finished a gansey last year and did it by picking up at the armscye and knitting down to the cuff. My only problem with it was I think I picked up too few stitches at the armscye. It pulls in where the shoulder and sleeve meet. But it wasn't a problem of knit in the round, it was a knitting error.
As for knit in the round hanging different, I haven't found this to be a problem. Thankfully I haven't encounter a piece that has twisted like I have heard others talk about.
For me to knit flat it must be an Intarsia project, big and bulky and too heavy to do the entire thing as one piece, or be all garter stitch-who wants to purl in the round!
My first knitting class was Set in sleeves knit in the round with Joan Schrouder at Stitches MDW 2001. We did a bear size sweater with no sleeve seaming, the only seams where the shoulders and we did them with a crochet hook. The decrease and increases in the "sleeve seam" gave the effect of a seam. She had many samples there that she had done with this technique and none of them looked or hung funny. She is a wopnderful designer and teacher, catch her if you can.
Well I have spouted enough drivel!
Chris |
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jcavin
New Pal
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 09:55:02 AM
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I have generaly knit in the flat, and preferred it because of the weight of the garments as they neared completion of each piece, and because it was easier to 'see' pattern stitches as I worked them. In addition, it was much easier for me to work multi-colored yarns with two straight signle-point needles.
I too, use three needle bid-off for shoulder seams that are to be joined, and have learned to create a 'selvege' edge stitch to make seaming easier and neater.
However, I have recently been knitting some 'chemo' caps for a friend who is undergoing chemotherapy, and definitely think that knitting in the round is preferable for that, since above all you want a soft smooth surface for the sensitive scalp.
To summ up, I think it depends upon the item being knit as well as the preferences of the knitter. How's that for fence sitting?
Joan Cavin |
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Kristin
Seriously Hooked
USA
606 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 11:47:00 AM
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I haven't found any difference in the sweaters that I knit in the round vs. flat knitting. They all hang quite nicely. I think if you're doing a top-down raglan, you have to make sure that you account for the differences in neck shaping on the back vs. the front in order to avoid bunching up at the front neckline.
I love knitting in the round. I can't stand seaming sweaters together. I find it tedious & boring, plus I'm lousy at it...LOL! I love making garments that are all in one piece because when I'm done knitting, I'm DONE! Nothing left to do but blocking. I have less UFOs now.
I also find I knit faster in the round so I complete my projects quicker. I still knit a few things flat (like my current WIP which is an Aran). However, if I have a choice, I would rather convert a flat pattern to in the round.
--Kristin |
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craftcrazy
New Pal
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 2:45:47 PM
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I prefer knitting on circular needles because
when I tried to cast on a lot of stitches they didn't fit on my
straight (18")needles. I will cast on using the longest straights I can find, do 1 row, then switch to circular. That way I don't poke anyone...including myself. It's also easier to transport my work.
I tried knitting in the round to avoid a seam & ended up with a piece of work that looked as though it was created by my dog!!
The only time I'll use straight needles is if I'm working on something that requires small pieces, such as a patchwork vest I
am actually turning into a sweater.
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BooksAngel
Chatty Knitter
USA
165 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 3:05:13 PM
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Thank you Bess, I printed that out to save for when it is needed.
I prefer circular needles, longer straight needles cause tender spots on the insides of my elbows now that the skin is thinner with age. So even the small amount of flat knitting I must do is knit on circular needles.
I once re-wrote a pattern stitch so I could knit to the arm holes on circular needles. At the arm hole I switch to the pattern as written. No one has ever noticed the place where I change patterns.
Angel
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