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Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2001 :  1:28:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
I'm quite concerned about those of you who manage to fool security personnel into missing your needles. The purpose for the ban is to PROTECT us from those who might take your needles and use them as weapons to take over the plane. The rules are NOT arbitrary - think of all of those who died on 9/11.

Are you all so self-absorbed that you can't sacrifice an hour or two of knitting (can I introduce you to Mr. Book?) for the security of your fellow passengers and those on the ground? Carrying a box cutter onto a plane seemed harmless a few months ago. Get a clue.

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Zeila
New Pal

1 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2001 :  1:44:24 PM  Show Profile Send Zeila a Private Message
I just returned from a long and complicated airplane trip, passing through 5 different airports.
I carried a pair of 6" plastic circular needles made by Clover and never drew a glance from airport security during multiple x-ray and hand searches. I knitted happily on my mittens in the airports and on the planes without getting a single reaction.
Airplane knitting is not a thing of the past, but be creative and plan carefully which needles, projects and paraphenalia you will need on the plane.

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e_looped
Seriously Hooked

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2001 :  1:58:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit e_looped's Homepage Send e_looped a Private Message
I have to agree with Lissa. I am not concerned about fellow knitters using the needles as weapons, but what happens if someone uses it against you as a weapon. I also agree with LondonK1P1YO because I don't want other passengers to feel nervous about me and my knitting needles. I noticed that a few people were nervous when I was knitting socks on the train. What made them nervous were the needles then they noticed that I was making socks and they were okay with it. One thing about the train is that it's difficult to hijack a train unlike a plane. I would prefer that other people do what they can to make me feel a bit safer about flying and since I try to live by the "do unto others" rule, I would like to do my part to make other passengers feel comfortable. So until people start to feel more comfortable flying - I still don't feel comfortable flying, I'll pack my needles and yarn in my checked baggage and read or sleep during the flight.

erica :)

Life is like knitting sometimes it's smooth and sometimes it's bumpy.
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shadow
New Pal

15 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2001 :  3:17:13 PM  Show Profile Send shadow a Private Message
I have flown with my knitting through six different airports since September 11. I have never had a problem yet. I have taken the plastic sock needles (The Bryspun brand) and I have taken the Addi Turbo which are metal.

One thing that may help, is that the knitting is stashed in a backpack which contains a lot of other things as well. That way the knitting needles don't stand out in an x-ray.

I have talked to people who have had their knitting taken away, although only a few, and it seems to depend on the personnel checking carryons more than an official policy.

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Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2001 :  09:20:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
Thanks, Erica - at least there's one other voice of sanity on this topic. I love to knit, and knit whenever I can, but the proliferation of people in this country who are so self-absorbed that they feel no sense of responsibility for contributing to the common good both horrifies and frightens me. Taking pride in getting away with something irresponsible, dangerous and illegal is despicable. Shame on them. Get a soul.

We should all be thinking of ways to THWART possible acts of terrorism, not enable them.

Whew. Sore subject. I guess I expect knitters to have a higher ethical sense. Quel disappointment.

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KathyDoughty
New Pal

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2001 :  12:35:02 PM  Show Profile Send KathyDoughty a Private Message
Hi Lissa and Erica!

I very much understand and respect your wanting to make sure that your fellow passengers are not discomforted by having knitting needles on board. However, I must quibble with airline policies that disallow nail-clippers, but allow such things as pens, pointy pencils, the pointer for my Palm Pilot, etc. Not that I think that *any* of the above items would be part of a terrorist's plan as a weapon. It is just the airlines' ill-thought-out (IMVHO) attempt to appear to be doing something. Shoot, any terrorist who is depending on grabbing my size 0 wooden needle (read "long toothpick") to take over a plane is the one who needs to "get a clue" . I rather think that the knitters that you are chastising are not being self-centered, but instead are thinking along these lines.

Kathy in Santa Barbara

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e_looped
Seriously Hooked

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2001 :  1:16:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit e_looped's Homepage Send e_looped a Private Message
Kathy-
I completely agree with you. I just don't want to give anyone an idea on pulling something out of my hand to use it as a weapon. Not that they would get very far with them. I think that a lot of what the airlines are doing is just window dressing trying to make people feel comfortable flying.
If I had my way I would travel with my knitting needles, but I fear they will be confiscated or make another passenger extremely nervous. I would rather just go the safe route.

erica :)

Life is like knitting sometimes it's smooth and sometimes it's bumpy.
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phlame
Permanent Resident

USA
1559 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2001 :  3:39:38 PM  Show Profile Send phlame a Private Message
Lissa and Kathy ... I have to agree with Kathy about this whole situation. I don't believe we have to be dissappointe with the knitters, I think it's a little extreme to question their ethical sense. Knitters like to knit, not hijack planes. ;)

?Where do you all get those little smiley things...oh.. just found them

Shirley
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phlame
Permanent Resident

USA
1559 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2001 :  3:43:03 PM  Show Profile Send phlame a Private Message
I just found them, but didn't do it right!

Shirley
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Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  08:00:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
You missed my point. In no way did I suggest that so august a group as knitters would hijack a plane. If you read my posts, you'll see that my concern is that someone might grab needles from knitters to use as weapons. I did suggest that we all need to see past our own noses and act out of other than selfish interests when we board a plane. And, yes, I AM disappointed when people behave selfishly without regard for those around them. Remember "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"?

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Karen
New Pal

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  08:45:41 AM  Show Profile Send Karen a Private Message
Touchy subject. I must agree with Lissa, though. I don't think it's too much to ask to sit and read or get some work done. Check your needles, be they long, short, fat or skinny. Perhaps it's not so much about someone swiping your needles and getting ugly, but more about respect for the comfort of the other passengers.

I'm as addicted to knitting as the next guy, but what's a few hours out of my life? It's really just a question of courtesy, and knitters, in my experience, are a very courteous group!!


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e_looped
Seriously Hooked

USA
712 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  08:52:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit e_looped's Homepage Send e_looped a Private Message
Karen & Lissa-
I completely agree with you on the respect for other passengers, that's my whole reason for not even thinking that I would attempt to knit on the plane.
I noticed at Thanksgiving even on the train some people were nervous when I pulled out my knitting needles. Then in the lounge car they would ask me what I was working on. I think it's mostly a comfort issue right now.
I want other people to respect my comfort, so I'll definitely respect theirs.

erica :)

Life is like knitting sometimes it's smooth and sometimes it's bumpy.
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sks
Warming Up

USA
57 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  10:03:49 AM  Show Profile Send sks a Private Message
Just a quick word of caution. I work for a major carrier here in the States. Our knitting needles are not permitted thru security in our carry on bags. They are pointed. I have tried telling my supervisors I could do more damage with a ball point pen but to no avail. In order to have your knitting with you on a trip, put your project into your checked baggage. There is some discrepency - the FAA changes their requirements constantly and the airlines are trying to keep up. Some airport's requirements seem to be different. I wish I could explain it better. I know how bothered I am about not being able to knit onboard. Sewing needles aren't allowed either. Nail clippers are ok if they don't have a file on them. The overall desire is to make us safer and I'm all for that but.....I just want to finish my socks!

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sks
Warming Up

USA
57 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  10:34:14 AM  Show Profile Send sks a Private Message
Sorry, but I forgot to add that it doesn't matter if your needles are wood, plastic, or metal - they may make it through the security checkpoint but wouldn't survive a random physical search. And, per a recent FAA directive, the airlines are not required to return any confiscated item to you, i.e., mailing something in a SASE. Some carriers would offer based on their customer service guidelines, but are not directed to do so. I have read several good books on my recent trips - I also take my knitting magazines and books with me to lessen the withdrawl symptoms! We will survive this and be safer for it.

sks

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Susan
New Pal

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  10:53:57 AM  Show Profile Send Susan a Private Message
I had the same question myself when I went on my honeymoon in October. If pencils and pens are allowed, why aren't knitting needles? Especially the circular ones? I think they need to get this straghtened out, because I can assure you it is just as easy to debilitate someone with a pencil or pen to the eye as it is to do it with a plastic knife. Anyway, good luck!

Susan

Susan Swiggers
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Susan
New Pal

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  11:02:36 AM  Show Profile Send Susan a Private Message
I've been reading your discussion, Lissa, about the safety of other passengers with great interest. I don't think that you've thought this through all the way, because it is just as easy to kill someone with a pen or pencil -- which ARE allowed, as it is with a knitting needle. All you need is a basic knowledge of anatomy and the great vessels. This is getting ridiculous with the security. Maybe everyone should just wear airport issued coveralls and EVERYTHING should be kept in the stowed baggage below? Something like Sept 11 will only happen once, the point has been made and people won't ever be docile cattle again. Also, I would like to point out that the people who flew the planes were dressed as pilots and had fake ID.
Susan

Susan Swiggers
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Lissa
Permanent Resident

USA
4942 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2001 :  1:22:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lissa's Homepage Send Lissa a Private Message
I've thought VERY carefully about it, Susan, but it doesn't take much brainpower to realize that a responsible person does what she can to minimize (note that I didn't say eliminate) risk. The pen issue is irrelevant to the knitting issue. The fact is that needles COULD be a weapon, and I'm evolved enough to do my part to minimize risk by engaging in other interests (like reading) on a plane. That other objects could also be weapons has no bearing on the fact that it's irresponsible to carry knitting needles aboard a plane when they present a real risk. Frankly, I could do just as well not carrying pens and pencils, either. They're not necessary to read. Not bringing needles onboard a plane is pure common sense, and I'm shocked at the number of "but my needs come first!" replies to my original post!

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KarinaJ
New Pal

USA
24 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2001 :  08:42:49 AM  Show Profile Send KarinaJ a Private Message
I have to disagree with you, Lissa. I don't want to start a flame war, or anything like that, but I've been deeply troubled by many Americans recent eagerness to give up basic freedoms which have been hard won over time.

This is not about knitting needles, or our neighbors comfort levels. This is about fear, and suspicion. I refuse to jump to the conclusion that I'm surrounded by people who are unbalanced enough to travel frequently, waiting for someone (me?) to whip out something that could potentially be used as a weapon, just in case it was time to hijack a plane. ANYONE can hijack a plane, using a ballpoint pen, or even worse (gasp!), a fountain pen, or a sharp hairclip. If we're that worried about people hijacking the plane, should we not let people with black belts (me, again, for one) onto planes, because they might use their skills for evil?

I see how standard straight needles can get a rise out of people. If you're that concerned for your neighbor's nerves, use circulars. And better yet, talk to your neighbor, and start breaking down the walls of isolation that have built up in america over the last few years. And this is not about my needs, I prefer to read on planes! (but while we're talking about that, there are many people who can't read because of motion sickness.)

And also, this is not a question of evolution, but of respect for one another and trust in the inate goodness of humanity. America has been called an evolved civilization by some, as well! and now we are allowing our elected leaders to bypass the checks and balances of government, hold unfair and secret trials for people (which was one of the most basic reasons for the American Revolution!) and to detain people on suspicion without divulging the reasons for doing so! I don't call this evolution, unless a slow movement towards a totalitarian regime is evolution.

And with that said, here's a quote from a founding father which has been particulary apt in these recent times (and I apologize for this soapbox foray into non-knitting topics):

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
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Smock7
Gabber Extraordinaire

USA
491 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2001 :  4:40:17 PM  Show Profile Send Smock7 a Private Message
Thank you KarinaJ.

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marfa
Permanent Resident

USA
1987 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2001 :  06:46:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit marfa's Homepage Send marfa a Private Message
How do.
KarinaJ, thank you for your articulate & elegant thoughts. Your written post speaks for me too.

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