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Molly C
Seriously Hooked
USA
884 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2004 : 06:27:36 AM
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I am in a bit of a quandry for Christmas. I know sometimes these convoluted family posts get hard to follow, so I'll try to keep it simple.
This Christmas we are going to my parents' house for the holiday. We alternate holidays and years, and this year is Christmas with my parents.
My mother told me yesterday that my brother and his wife are also coming for Christmas this year, and it will be the first time in many, many years that I've celebrated with them present and the first time DH will be there too. There are some estrangement issues with my brother and his wife between DH and me, mostly because my SIL is not a nice person.
For various reasons, my brother and SIL did not come to my wedding, and I have only seen them once since before I was married, and that was this summer at a family funeral that my DH could not attend. Suffice it to say, this has the potential to be a very tedious day, and the only saving grace is that my brother and SIL will only be visiting for less than 24 hours.
Oddly enough, my brother and I still exchange Christmas and birthday presents, depsite the fact that we don't really speak. His birthday was last week, and I'd been contemplating asking him via email if we could stop exchanging gifts now that we are grown and married and lead very different lives. Even if we were on speaking terms, we still would rarely see each other, and it's hard to figure out what they might want or need.
Well, since they are now coming for Christmas, I can't very well not exchange gifts with them. They live in a small apartment because my brother went back to school and they moved for a new job for my SIL. A lot of their stuff is in storage at my brother's in-laws until they by a house again (probably several years from now). They are very active and outdoorsy, but at this point I'm fairly confident they have all the outdoor supplies they need for camping, skiing, etc. etc.
To the point of this posting, I was thinking of making them each a hat and mitten set. If I get some bulky yarn I could knit up some sets pretty quickly, and unless the colors are off, I feel confident that they would use and enjoy hats and mittens; my SIL has asked my mom to knit her mittens years past, and last year after my mom taught me to knit she was in the knitting mode and made them some scarves while they visited.
My DH, on the other hand, thinks that I should not make them anything knitted because I would be investing too much time for otherwise toxic family members. He says that I should do what I like, but he would prefer just to buy them something that isn't emotionally hand crafted.
I see my DH's point, and it is definitely one that I am considering. I do know that my brother is making Christmas presents, so we will most likely get something hand crafted from him. I am just torn with what to do. I'd really like to make up with them, but my first loyalty is to my DH, and I can't make up with them until they apologize and acknowledge that they hurt us. It is unlikely they will ever do so. My mother feels that the fact they are coming for Christmas is their apology; I think my brother wanted to come specifically because DH and I will be there, but for DH's sake I need a verbal apology before I can forgive them.
Still, he is my brother, and SIL was actually my best friend for a time, so it kind of hurts that they are no longer in my life. I think part of me wants to make them something so that when they wear it they will think of me and some of that is good thoughts just because we are all family, and some of it selfish just because I want them to think about what they did. . . .
Sorry - I didn't do such a good job of keeping this short. I'd just like opinions on what I should do or not do, or if any of you have any other similar stories you could share.
Thanks!
Molly 
http://knittingmolly.blogspot.com
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Milinda
Permanent Resident
USA
3816 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 06:42:13 AM
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Molly, I'm all for forgiving and mending fences, I think it can be healing. That said, I think this situation, from what you describe, is a weighty,loaded one, perhaps too much so for mittens and hats to support.
You have so many issues, including your DH's not wanting you to invest your time, that I think knitting something would be a let down or disappointment and perhaps add to your strained relations. I can't imagine investing my time in something just so the person would think of what he/she had done to hurt/upset me. Better to come right out and confront that person and try to work things out, but not at Christmas at your mother's.
Why not get a gift certificate from REI or Eddie Bauer so they can pick out some outdoorsy things they really like and take up the issues later at a less charged time of the year.
M L |
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fmarrs
Guardian angel
USA
9776 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 06:44:08 AM
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| There is no should do or should not do. There is only one thing you need to understand. Since there is an estrangement, it is quite possible that they will not like your gift no matter what it is. How would it affect you if they didn't appreciate your hand knit gift? Can you tolerate disapproval of your hand knits? Trying to overanalyze whether to do it or not is a waste of time. In my opinion, knit it if you feel like it. Since you are questioning it, I suspect you really don't want to do it....so don't. I knit for the enjoyment of knitting. Once I give a gift to someone, I no longer invest myself in it. If the recipient doesn't appreciate it, it's their loss. |
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celia
Permanent Resident
Australia
2454 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 06:45:11 AM
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I can't tell you what to do, Molly dear.
However, I'll tell you what I would do in this situation.
I too have someone with whom I don't get along. I will not make anything for her. She is not family to me (yet) - the day i marry my bf, she will be family. But even then, unless osmething drastic changes, i willc ontinue to buy her gifts. i will not make them.I have made her a scarf in the past - because she asked for it. however, I have never seen it worn.
I refuse to knit for people whom i don't think are worth my time. I invest a fair bit of effort and emotion in my work, and so I will only knit for people I want to knit for now.
Culturally we are all different. What is acceptable to me may not be to you. my family for various reasons did not get along with my bf. Truce has been declared (sort of) and there is some sort of peace between them now. There will never be any verbal or written apology from either party. However, I am not sure there needs to be one. Hopefully one day they will get used to one another and see one another's good points and the relationship will improve. This is culturally acceptable to us. however, for you, things may be different. You'll need to consider what is important to you, and it seems that you have - that a verbal apology s important.
I hope I have helped
celia
View my completed items here
http://img65.photobucket.com/albums/v197/celiang/
and my blog here
http://celiaknits.blogspot.com |
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GFTC
Permanent Resident
USA
6331 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 06:55:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Milinda
Why not get a gift certificate from REI or Eddie Bauer so they can pick out some outdoorsy things they really like
Milinda and the others are 100% right. You must be kidding even thinking of knitting something for them. I think that knitting something for someone is very personal and should be for the people you care about. When I give a handknitted item to someone they know they are extremely special to me.
I have the same story as you with one of my sisters-in-law. She has destroyed my relationship with my brother and in turn his relationship as uncle to my son never happened. However, to me she doesn't exist. I have been at the same table at family weddings and such and do not speak to her or acknowledge her presence whatsoever. Nobody in the family would ever invite both of us to their home at the same time. I would not ever consider "mending fences" with her after all these years.
As far as gifts, I no longer give my brother gifts for any occasion and they have no children so that is not an issue and they do not acknowlege my son's birthday or holidays.
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fillyjonk
Permanent Resident
1127 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 07:05:15 AM
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I can see both sides of the argument. I think it comes down to how YOU (and your DH) will react.
If it will not bother you to have a handmade gift possibly rejected (I know it would bother me), and you think it might contribute to fence-mending, then go for it. If you have TIME to do it (without pushing aside something you would do for DH or other closer family, or pushing aside other commitments), then do it.
If, however, you're already kind of stressed, and maybe emotional, and you don't know how the gift will go over, buy gift cards. Or gift certificates from a restaurant near where they live (if you know one they like). People that I don't get on as well with, or whose preferences I don't know well, get gift cards from me. I save my knitted gifts for people (like my mom, and sis-in-law, and a longtime family friend) who will appreciate and use them.
Remember that not everyone loves knitted gifts (Although the fact that your SIL asked for knit mittens already - albeit from your mum - suggests that she might be open to it).
Sorry to not give any resolution, it's just I think you have to sit down and weigh the pros and cons of it. (Were it me, I'd probably go with a nice gift card or a restaurant gift certificate. I've even given restaurant gift certificates to people I LIKED who I knew were going to be moving soon or lived in small places or who didn't want more "stuff," and they were well-received, especially by people who were students or otherwise on limited income.) |
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klfrazier
Permanent Resident
1745 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 07:15:23 AM
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I've knit for an estranged friend before, and found it did more to heal me than the relationship. I don't know really what she thought about the gift, or if she used it. That really didn't matter to me. What was important was that I had taken a step to work past my own negative emotions.
I don't offer this up as advice by any means, but I did want to share it.
Kristin |
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Lanea
Permanent Resident
USA
5158 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 08:14:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by klfrazier
I've knit for an estranged friend before, and found it did more to heal me than the relationship. I don't know really what she thought about the gift, or if she used it. That really didn't matter to me. What was important was that I had taken a step to work past my own negative emotions.
I don't offer this up as advice by any means, but I did want to share it.
Kristin
I echo this lovely sentiment. You are clearly hurt by the estrangement. Some people may never do what they should to regain your trust and your time, but you may benefit by doing something so generous. Perhaps, since it seems your brother is the one you miss most, you could knit for him and not your SIL? Also, you can view a project like a prayer shawl, and knit hopes for healing into it but eventually give it to someone else entirely, or set it aside to possibly give to your estranged family members one day in the future? Do what feels best to you. I have been estranged from most of my father's side of the family since I was a very young child, so I know how difficult it can be. I hope you find a solution that feels good, and that the visit is a positive one. |
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amandaCO
Gabber Extraordinaire
USA
530 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 08:29:59 AM
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| I have knit for people who don't *deserve* it. On the other hand I knew they understood how much time/effort went into it and that in and of itself said a lot without me having to say anything. If you really are trying to mend things between them hand knitted gifts may be a very good gesture. If things are doubtful to ever be good between you again then I would opt for a gift certificate for me. Best of luck for a happy holidays, don't let them stress you out too much. |
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Atavistic
Permanent Resident
6604 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 10:01:00 AM
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I must be insane.
I don't exchange gifts with people I don't like (with the exception of the one cousin that I draw every year; sometimes I don't like the cousin, but we all draw names).
I don't exchange gifts with people I do like in some cases (Dad, brother, best friend, they all get/give gifts when I/they want to, not due to some obligation).
If someone gives me a gift or sends me a holiday card or--shudder and horrors--a dreaded "holiday letter" I don't feel obligated to do more than say, "Why, thank you."
I don't knit for ANYONE who doesn't deserve it, even at someone else's request.
I don't let my family dictate how I spend my time or holidays.
Wow, I feel like a super mean woman. And ooooh, does it feel good.
Amanda
“There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches." Ray Bradbury |
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mokey
Permanent Resident
15375 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 10:17:28 AM
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I don't knit anything for, let alone exchange gifts with people I don't like, family or not. If it was me, I'd get them a gift cert or buy them a scarf set, that way if they don't like it, it's not personal and they cantake it back of needed. I know family relations can be tricky. I never got along my sister in law, because we really have nothing in common. Her life is her kids and she cannot have a conversation about anything else, so there's nothing to talk about. She is also the person who decided a breadmaker machine was the perfect wedding gift for a couple with a metre of counter space and no storage, despite being told by everyone else that we had no use for it. Of course, she wanted one for herself and kept ours when we had to give it back. This year, actually yesterday we found out they won't be exchanging gifts. Nice to tell us a week before they come up! Anyway, I do like my brother in law, so they are still getting their bath mitts and designer soap. It's already packaged with their name on it. If it wasn't I wouldn't knit anything for them, but buy them something and put the gift receipt in with it. With the bath mitts, I've created a little tag saying it was hand made and to forward inquiries/exchanges to my email address(which they don't know).
Maybe the best thing to do would be to make a collage or mini photo album of pictures of you and your brother as kids. It would also likely give you something to chat about.
"There is no beauty in the finest cloth if it makes hunger and unhappiness." Gandhi |
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Cameellie
Honorary Angel
USA
900 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 10:22:24 AM
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Here's a New Age-y or spiritual thought: As you knit the gifts say prayers/charms/wishes for the two of them to become loving family members and to understand how their past behavior was hurtful. If nothing else it will give you peace and some closure. I knit a sweater for my sister while we weren't speaking. About 3 months later she called me to cry on my shoulder about how terrible things were and she missed me. Did the sweater do it? Did the wishes I whispered into it as I knit do it? I don't know, but she did come back.
Cameellie
Remember, everybody is somebody else's weirdo. |
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Molly C
Seriously Hooked
USA
884 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 10:26:23 AM
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Thanks for all your comments so far. If I do end up knitting them something, I'm actually not all that concerned that they would reject it - if they did it would be based on me not buying the right color yarn rather than the fact that I made it. My brother is a welder and he makes stuff for people every year, and my SIL makes candles, and we typically get one of her candles in our holiday presents. They are actually good recipients for hand knits; my DH on the other hand is a different story, lol.
I do think that knitting something for them would be akin to the prayer shawl concept; I hadn't really thought of that before. It would be rather cathartic for me, and I do think that they might take it as a positive step.
However, my trip to the LYS was fruitless this morning as I could not find any yarn I really liked for either one of them. I was hoping to get some Morehouse Merino bulky at the farmers market in NYC tomorrow, but I don't think I will be able to make it to the city tomorrow. The selection of variegateds they have on their website are a very small slice of all their colorways, and I would want to seem them in person before choosing.
Since I will most likely be unable to get the yarn I want I am probably not going to knit them anything after all, but as my DH says to me - that's always subject to change.
I know there is no simple answer to this, and I really do appreciate all your replies so far, both for and against this project. Part of me hopes that if I do knit them something that it would be sort of a peace offering; I do think that my brother would recognize that, although I'm not sure of my SIL. It's a difficult situation because my family has had been dealing with my SIL and her wacky moods ever since my brother started dating her, but because I met my DH many years later, he thinks this all has to do with him, when in reality the rift with him is just a small part of it. That is not to say that his feelings aren't valid, but just that this runs deeper than what he can comprehend.
The other issue is that for various reasons I am quite sure that my SIL thinks she was the wronged one in this whole saga. I suspect that she is waiting for me to apologize for what I said, and I don't think she has the ability to figure out that the reasons I was upset in the first place is as a result of things that she said to me about DH. Quite honestly, I think she's now scared of me because I am one of the few people who ever stood up to her. She might be more willing to make amends if she thought I had softened just a bit.
It's a complicated situation, and whomever said that a hat and mitten set wouldn't really set things right is quite correct. I just think (or hope at least) that it might be the first step in trying to rebuild a civil relationship, even if it never rekindles into a warm relationship.
Molly
http://knittingmolly.blogspot.com
Have a blog? Join the KR Webring and share your blog with the rest of the group! Click here. |
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twstdstchs
Chatty Knitter
178 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 10:41:12 AM
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Hi Molly,
Go ahead and knit the hats/mittens, but use acrylic!
Just joking, of course. It sounds as if the problem is more your SIL and it would be nice to have your brother in your life again. He does have to support her though for the sake of his marriage. I can see giving them a gift certificate, or the hats and mittens. (If it isn't a great investment in time, etc for you to do the knitting.) It is Christmas so this might be the right time to make a (little) extra effort, and maybe they will too. Not worth risking a tiff with your DH though. I like the idea of a collage of pictures. Good Luck, Sheryl |
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sanity101
Gabber Extraordinaire
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 11:15:17 AM
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If you'd enjoy it, do it.
If it'd be a bother, or you don't really have time to, don't.
Personally, I'd rather spend hours getting to play with pretty yarn than a few minutes driving to a store. It seems like you have all the right intentions with this, so don't worry about score keeping or whether they 'deserve' it or not.
-C |
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Molly C
Seriously Hooked
USA
884 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 11:44:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by twstdstchs
Go ahead and knit the hats/mittens, but use acrylic!
I actually already thought of that, but I hate to knit with acrylic, so that would be punishment to me, not them! 
I'm still undecided if I should just order some Morehouse since that's what I want to use or if I should just skip this and see what happens on the holiday and perhaps knit them something next year if at all. I will keep you all posted.
Molly
http://knittingmolly.blogspot.com
Have a blog? Join the KR Webring and share your blog with the rest of the group! Click here. |
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Soxy
Gabber Extraordinaire
New Zealand
389 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 2:21:49 PM
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Oh dear, isnt Christmas a time for peace? How about giving yourself, DH and the rest of the family the biggest Christmas present this year? By forgiving your SIL......no matter who was in the wrong.. Your parents will certainly love you more for it and you will have a wonderful peaceful 2005.....:-))
And go ahead knit if you can find the right yarn!
Hugs
Sock Addict |
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Catladyknits
Gabber Extraordinaire
Canada
368 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 4:12:10 PM
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Molly - I can't really add anything to all the insightful comments people have already written you. You know you just have to do what's in your heart, and I wish the best for you, and I hope, whichever you decide, that the rifts begin to heal. Life is too short.
Hugs from me too.
Marilyn |
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ozknitter
Permanent Resident
Australia
3248 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 4:45:02 PM
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Hi Molly,
I think it would be a lovely idea to make hats and mitten sets.
If they don't appreciate it don't get upset, its their loss.
Try and make things as pleasant as possible and try and forget past bad times.
Above all keep you dignity.
Knit in peace and harmony.
Rose. |
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OdellBurgess@aol.com
USA
Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 4:50:47 PM
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Funny this should come up -- I just started a scarf and hat set for my MIL, with whom I have a very strained relationship (to put it mildly).
So far I have found that it makes me feel like a better person than I usually am, so I am glad to be doing it.
Read all about it: http://pinktalk.typepad.com |
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Hello Knitty
Permanent Resident
1069 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 5:04:03 PM
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| Life is too short to waste your knitting time on people like that! |
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