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carols
Permanent Resident
USA
1681 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2004 : 11:01:52 AM
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I've just noticed a thread on KnitList discussing how some LYS charge a fee for attending their knitting circle-type gatherings. I'm appalled!
Carol |
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BergenKnitter
Chatty Knitter
249 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 11:29:56 AM
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| I could understand a small fee, less than $5. Some of the LYS serve wine & snacks. If they are smart they would give vouchers to their regular customers, and/or give a coupon for a discount on a future purchase with a paid admission. |
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mokey
Permanent Resident
15375 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 11:51:59 AM
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Why be appalled? The people working there have to paid, the lights are still on, and these things often end up as mini classes. My closest LYS offers free knit nights for those taking classes, or who have recently taken classes. They have drinks, and sometmes snacks. Every trip to the cafe is about $5.00, so I see nothing wrong in paying for a knit night.
Monika
"There is no beauty in the finest cloth if it makes hunger and unhappiness." Gandhi |
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Clara
queen bee
USA
4362 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 11:57:33 AM
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It's funny, I remember being appalled the first time I saw an admission fee mentioned for a shop knitting event. It happened to be a prosperous store notorious for its markups, so I simply perceived it as another example of their for-profit mindset, "Sheeesh, they're so greedy."
But since then I've come to the other side, and I must agree with BergenKnitter. Anything under $5 is reasonable, depending on the shop and the event offerings. It costs money to heat and light and staff and feed (especially if this is off-hours). Even if the event were hosted at someone's private house, I think it'd be fair to pass a hat to help pay for the event.
I realize I'm being a bit hypocritical here, since I give away KR for free every week. Part of that is because there isn't yet a reasonable model for paid online content, so I work to find other avenues to pay my bills. But in the realm of physical knitting events, the paid model is there and should be supported. As long as it's within a reasonable price-point.
My two cents (or not, as the case may be!),
Clara
Your friendly Knitter's Review publisher
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Summer
Gabber Extraordinaire
USA
581 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 12:00:51 PM
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It would depend on a couple of things for me. Are they serving snacks and drinks? Is there someone actually teaching or is it a social thing where no official teacher is there to help? Is it during regular business hours where the lights are already on, or is the store turning on it's lights and hiring someone to be there during non-business hours? Would you be able to make purchases during the meeting? How often does it meet?
If it's an entirely social gathering during regular business hours with no bonuses, then I'd find a different group to meet with and probably a different place to shop. If they're turning on the lights just for that gathering, hiring a staff member to be there to make sales and clean up afterwards, hiring a teacher, serving food and/or drinks, I could understand a small fee per meeting.
Jill
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rozcar99@msn.com
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Posted - 01/14/2004 : 12:10:10 PM
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I'm on the knitlist also and the woman said the one fee(I think the registration) is $75 and the monthly fee is $25. I believe she also said it was mostly a social event. I know for a fact I wouldn't pay unless there was a teacher present.
Roslynne
Philadelphia |
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Clara
queen bee
USA
4362 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 12:10:39 PM
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Jill - you put it perfectly. A few chairs tossed in the back during business hours does not necessarily constitute a fee-worthy event. Special hours, on-site help, and hot tea, now that's another story...
Clara
Your friendly Knitter's Review publisher
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knittykat
Seriously Hooked
USA
710 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 12:12:38 PM
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I agree with Jill. If you are taking an actual class then a fee is certainly expected. But I've seen lots of groups knitting in a store during normal business hours--I would never pay to go sit in a store unless there were some actual bonuses involved.
I also disagree with the idea of having to knit with a particular shop's yarn during a group session. I totally understand you should only get lessons when you buy the yarn there, but having to buy ALL your yarn at that shop in order to socialize does not sit well with me. Would you be 'ostracized' if you were working on a doggie blanket with cheapie craft-store yarn? You can't come back until you're knitting something with fancy yarn?
The way I see it, you go for the free knitting night with a friend, and then you get there and think "Oh, wow, what a nice store, and what nice people! Next time I need yarn, I'm coming here!"
And if you have a knitting circle at someone's house, I think everyone should just take turns bringing goodies to make it less of a burden on the hostess. Or rotate houses from time to time. Paying a fee to hang out with friends just seems icky to me.
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kwbykc@aol.com
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Posted - 01/14/2004 : 12:19:43 PM
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Wow, a fee for a gathering. I could see that if there was some type of instruction going on, or maybe if there was a prize to be won at the end of the gathering.
Like BergenKnitter said, if refreshments were served, I could understand that too.
I'm surprized there would be a charge for just getting together. Maybe the shop feels like the shoppers are renting space. Wow. |
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vicky by the bay
Permanent Resident
USA
4768 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 12:34:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rozcar99@msn.com
I'm on the knitlist also and the woman said the one fee(I think the registration) is $75 and the monthly fee is $25. I believe she also said it was mostly a social event. I know for a fact I wouldn't pay unless there was a teacher present.
Roslynne
Philadelphia
WAY TOO MUCH!!!! I wouldn't join the group. I can see $5-$10. But $75 to join and $25/month...I don't think so....refreshments and electricity doesn't cost $25/per person....RIP OFF...unless there are professional instructors and free supplies/patterns/yarn......
Vicky (Queen O'Yarn archivist-QYA) |
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purlewe
Permanent Resident
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 1:06:44 PM
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i could see a 5$ fee if there was several of the points mentioned here. free food, teacher or instruction of some kind, paying a staff member to stay late, lights etc. But in a way i think it is odd, since when i go when to a knit circle i end up spending MORE money there than when i pop in to get a quick set of dpns or if there is a yarn that i have to have, or pattern.. doesn't that offset the cost? and the paying to join and then a fee per month? forget it. i ahve friends. we can make our own circle. is there a catch i am not reading? say free samples of yarn? chances to meet designers and knit while they are there?
purlewe
My mother made me a homosexual. And if you give her some yarn, she'll make you one too. ~quentin crisp |
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mokey
Permanent Resident
15375 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 1:28:53 PM
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I also feel that $75.00 plus $25.00 a month is too much to sit and knit, but $25.00 a month is reasonable to me, even without instruction or refreshments. I went to my own knit night last night and my dinner was $25.00 so I don't see the problem with charging a few bucks.
Monika
"There is no beauty in the finest cloth if it makes hunger and unhappiness." Gandhi |
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kdcrowley
Permanent Resident
USA
4773 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 1:35:27 PM
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We recently had a LYS ask to move my Borders group to her shop, which on the face of things, sounded good.
As a group, we meet from 6-9 pm in the local borders, which also has a cafe. We meet in the bookstore, not the cafe. Some nights we are there until 10-10:30 depending on the night and the group.
We decided that if we met at her shop, that we would feel obligated to purchase something....temptation, you know. She would probably have to have someone there to man the store, and would probably not be able to stay real late. We as a group voted to possibly arrange nights where we had field trips or the like. Many of us could manage to find a project to work on on multiple knitty nights, so......
I agree, if the LYS supplies some added value to the knitting group, then they can charge a fee. but no additional value translates to no fee for me.
Kelley
Everywhere you go, there you are! Imagine that.... |
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of troy
Permanent Resident
USA
2474 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 1:43:11 PM
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I'm on the knitlist also and the woman said the one fee(I think the registration) is $75 and the monthly fee is $25.
that is a bit steep! the BAKG (big apple KG) charged $25 for yearly membership, (this include many (5 to 7!) mini turtorials at the monthly meetings, a bi-monthly newsletter, and discounted fee's for workshops (and they have great ones, Lily chin, for example!)--as well as discounts at many LYS's-
if the meetings were weekly (and $25 a month is still steep for a weekly meeting), and include refreshments, and or tutorials..or great hand outs, or maybe.. but it sounds like a store has just created a way to increase its profit margins...
yeah, they do have to have someone there, (but most yarn store employees are part timers, and i suspect these 'knit ins' aren't enough time to boost their hour to full time employee (and entitle them to benefits, or to earn them OT) but the fixed cost of running the store don't change.. (rent doesn't go up, and lights (and all electic costs) are often cheaper after 6 PM or 7 PM (when most businesses are closed.. they are cheaper not just of business but for all utility users..)
and as any shop owner knows, getting a customer into the store is a good thing. they might not make a purchase the first time, or everytime, but they more often they come in the store, the more likely they are to make a purchase.
and the store is no doubt getting a mailing list out of it.
lists (of addresses and email addresses) are valuable. nice places, (like this) that don't sell them are very special. many places collect addresses for advertizing purposes..and sell them at a nice profit.
(my boss used to 'give a way' a computer system several times a year) just drop in your business card to enter....
he really gave the computer away(he took a photo of the winner too) and every month he got hundreds of new names for his business mailing list...
(which he sold for many times the price of a computer!)
business card have lots of information, (department names, telephone numbers, fax numbers, etc.. all valuable to other businesses!)--
(everyone was assigned a task of entering the names into the
database--duplicated were sorted out.. |
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mbmoody
Gabber Extraordinaire
583 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 4:21:16 PM
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The fee for the knitting group I go to is $5, which is donated to charity. There is no expectation that you buy yarn at that shop, and we've even had employees of another shop show up to try to persuade people to shop there. Tolerated, but there was relief when they stopped showing up. It is emphasized that this is a social time, not a class time, and no instruction is available.
Even if the money went to the shop, I don't expect to occupy space in someone else's business, eating their food and drinking their coffee for free. |
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storiesr
Sustaining Member
692 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 4:42:27 PM
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My LYS has "Knitter's Night Out" tiwce a month and it is 30 bucks for a quarter. There is instruction/assistance available........but mostly it is social..I don't go but they usually have a waiting list!!
We may not be able to control the wind, but we can direct our sails! |
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megknits
Sustaining Member
USA
728 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 8:48:36 PM
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quote:
Clara: I realize I'm being a bit hypocritical here, since I give away KR for free every week. Part of that is because there isn't yet a reasonable model for paid online content, so I work to find other avenues to pay my bills.
Clara, have you ever considered having a voluntary donation to support KR? I know of at least one community newspaper chain that has an annual voluntary subscription drive, and makes a good bit of money from it. I think quite a few of the regulars here wouldn't mind donating a modest amount of money (say $10-20 a year) to help defray your costs. You could make it an item in the boutique section, since you're already set up to take online orders there.
I think you're doing a wonderful job here, and you should be compensated for the time you put into it.
Just a thought...
Meg |
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Tam
Permanent Resident
Australia
2810 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 10:10:24 PM
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I don't go to a knitting group, but I think a fee would be fair if you got a cuppa or maybe it could be taken off your next purchase over say $25. Our playgroup charges $2 per week to offset the cost of the cup of tea (but you pay whether you have one or not). $25 per month is a bit much because you may not be able to go every week, so if you only make it once in the month that week has cost you $25.
I'd be happy to pay a fee to use KR but how would you be able to charge it?
Happy Knitting,
Tam
A day in which you learn something is not a wasted day. |
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myshelle10
Permanent Resident
USA
2749 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 11:06:32 PM
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$25 a month is a bit high depending on how much you're able to use it...
On the other hand there is a store here where people hang out and knit. There's no charge for hanging out, but she does charge $6 per session or $20 per month if you want a mini one-on-one "lesson" while you're there (i.e. the "Ack! What did I do? Help me fix this!" moments). Which seems fair. I don't have to pay $20/ month every month I go, BUT if I decide I want to try something new, I can pay *that* month and get advice-- or I can just show up (for free) and hang out!
m |
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klfrazier
Permanent Resident
1745 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2004 : 07:32:06 AM
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My LYS doesn't have a social hour, but the owner does like it when I stop by on a Saturday afternoon to knit for a while. She doesn't care whether or not I bring things from her store, and I'm starting to understand why.
Knitters, as a general rule, are pretty social critters, and when I'm in her store I tend to visit with whomever comes in. It adds to the warmth of the store, and does tempt people to look at new things. I try to bring in projects that aren't too far outside of her stock so that I can point people to the designer or similar yarns if they are interested. I've also helped out with beginner questions once or twice.
If it ever came to the point where she had a social hour, I wouldn't mind paying for it at all. After all, I do get a lot of enjoyment from the lys!
Kristin |
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fillyjonk
Permanent Resident
1127 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2004 : 08:55:15 AM
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I have to admit, I'm amazed at the chutzpah of someone charging a $75 registration fee plus $25 per month to join a group, when there doesn't seem to be any "lessons" or "private sales" or anything like that.
Even if there were "help" being made available, I can't see charging more than $5 or $10 per person per session - if you had five people show up, say, that would be $25 right there. And if it were a social session, with just minimal help needed, the "help" person would be pretty well paid.
I think the registration fee is what really galls me. And don't get me wrong - I pay registration fees when they make sense (and I pay some whoppers - as an ecologist, the registration fees for meetings I present at can top $100 easily. But, that's for a work-related thing and those who itemize can write it off. And it is clear that the money pays for organization, rental of the location, etc., etc. A registration fee for a meeting at an existing yarn store seems pretty unfair).
I do like the idea a poster made - if you're going to charge $5 or $10 for the meeting, then either offer a percentage off the next purchase, or else refund part of that fee if a purchase is made (many catalogs do that - they charge for the catalog but refund the cost if you buy).
Still, $25 per month seems steep, even if there is a meeting each week. If your life is like my life, I'd probably make one meeting out of four if I were lucky...
It seems like it's a way for the yarn store owner to make a profit without actually having his/her inventory sell...
it would be interesting to know how many takers there were at that price. Perhaps part of my amazement at it is that I live in a part of the country where the cost of living is typically not very high, and so, spending $75 on anything seems like a lot (also, I'm not all that far out of grad school so $75 sounds like a huge whopping sum of money to me). |
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