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T O P I C    R E V I E W
pcrocker Posted - 05/05/2010 : 06:28:57 AM
I'm trying to settle a "difference of opinion" with a friend and need some help! Do the live stitches on the needle count as a completed row when counting rows? We both agree you do not usually count the cast on row.
14   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
GFTC Posted - 05/13/2010 : 11:30:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by aprilshowers
In this, all I did was cast on and then knit 1 row. So if I had put this work down and forgotten what I did and came back to it later and wanted to count, I would skip the cast on row of stitches (blue stitches) and count the live stitches as row 1 (red stitches) and come to the conclusion that I had knit 1 row. Does that make sense?


No, the live stitches are Row 1 but they are not the completed Row 1. You have not "knit 1 row". If you "knit 1 row" you would not still have live stitches. You may have knit 1/2 of Row 1. You may have knit 3/4 of Row 1. You are in the process of knitting Row 1 because you still have live stitches. When there are no more live stitches you will have "knit 1 row".
The OP's question was:
Do the live stitches on the needle count as a completed row when counting rows?
The operative phrase in the original question is completed row.

I'm done here. Count them any way that makes you happy.

GFTC of NYC
my knitting photos on Flickr or Ravelry
fmarrs Posted - 05/13/2010 : 10:51:28 AM
I have read and reread this same discussion many, many timesand have come to this comclusion....It doesn't matter. What does matter is that whatever technique you use, you are consistent in its use and don't switch back and forth in the middle of a project.

fran

http://martianmischief.blogspot.com/
aprilshowers Posted - 05/13/2010 : 10:20:00 AM
I think we are probably saying the same thing but in a different way. And, frankly, it doesn't matter much since we each have our own method which works for us (and this discussion explains why the OP and her friend also couldn't agree on how to do it!).

But, since I promised a photo, I wanted to come back and show you what I meant, instead of just disappearing into the ether.

Here is the "swatch" (which can hardly be called a swatch): http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1426/4603858791_b9c5a6a250_o.jpg

In this, all I did was cast on and then knit 1 row. So if I had put this work down and forgotten what I did and came back to it later and wanted to count, I would skip the cast on row of stitches (blue stitches) and count the live stitches as row 1 (red stitches) and come to the conclusion that I had knit 1 row. Does that make sense?

GFTC - would you count what I am calling the cast on stitches (blue stitches) as row 1? Is that how we are differing?

________________________________________________
Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/7419094@N02/sets/72157600168327475/
Ravelry: http://www.ravelry.com/projects/aprilshowers
pcrocker Posted - 05/08/2010 : 05:54:39 AM
Thank you all for your help! It's so funny that I can't find this subject in any of my knitting books. That's why this forum is so wonderful!
Ceil Posted - 05/07/2010 : 7:40:03 PM
Another reason not to count the lives sts on the needle: If it's a sweater, the live row will be the seam row, taking away a little bit of length from the armholes.

Ceil

Time is never a factor when joy is involved.
mertle Posted - 05/06/2010 : 3:26:24 PM
Glad to help, GFTC!

Marilyn
My Bags
GFTC Posted - 05/06/2010 : 3:13:54 PM
Thank you Marilyn! I was starting to think I was explaining it in Martian.

GFTC of NYC
my knitting photos on Flickr or Ravelry
mertle Posted - 05/06/2010 : 12:10:32 PM
Consider the loops on the needle as what connects the rows. They aren't stitches until you knit them.

Consider 4 rows of stockinette.
Cast on row (not counted)
With loops on left needle and cast-on tail to the left, begin.
Row 1: Right Side; knit
Row 2: Wrong Side; purl
Row 3: Right Side; knit *
Row 4: Wrong Side; purl

*If you stop at the asterisk and count the loops on the needle as the 4th row, you've missed a whole row of purling, PLUS, you're on the wrong side, not the right side. This could make a huge difference in a lot of stitch patterns and color work.

Marilyn
My Bags
GFTC Posted - 05/06/2010 : 08:53:40 AM
quote:
Skip the cast-on loops/stitches, then there would be 3 rows of stitches and the live stitches on the needle to come to 4 rows.


Exactly. You haven't knit the 4th row. It's in work. It's live stiches. It's on the needle. It is Row 4 but it isn't complete. If you were to bind off on that row you would end up with 3 rows not 4.
If by no other means, just by words alone, it appears to me that live stitches cannot be the same as a completed row.

If I had to cross a cable on Row 4 I would count 3 rows to the completed row below the needle and know that the next row is Row 4 and cross the cable on that row which is now live stitches in work.

If my pattern says "Knit 72 rows, bind off 4 stitches at the beginning of the next row" it means complete 72 rows and bind off on the beginning of the 73rd row. If I didn't keep track and now have to count the rows I count 72 rows up to and including the row just below the needle which is the completed Row 72. The new row of live stitches is Row 73 where I have to bind off.

I don't think it makes any difference which cast on is used when counting rows as the cast on is not supposed to be counted.


GFTC of NYC
my knitting photos on Flickr or Ravelry
aprilshowers Posted - 05/06/2010 : 08:36:08 AM
I use the cable cast-on technique (which means that I do not turn the work at the end of the cast-on as the stitches are on my left needle already - not sure if this makes a difference). If I then knit 1 row, my work has just the cast-on stitches and the live stitches on the needle. So, in counting, I would not count the cast-on stitches but would count the live stitches on the needle: 1 row.

In your example, I'd do the same. Skip the cast-on loops/stitches, then there would be 3 rows of stitches and the live stitches on the needle to come to 4 rows. I will knit up a swatch later on and post some picture of what I mean (as well as to assure myself that I am not completely crazy!). But I wonder if the difference has something to do with our cast-on methods? I am not experienced enough in the technical aspects of knitting to understand how that might affect this discussion.

________________________________________________
Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/7419094@N02/sets/72157600168327475/
Ravelry: http://www.ravelry.com/projects/aprilshowers
GFTC Posted - 05/05/2010 : 11:45:00 AM
If the live stitches count as a row then how would you work this instruction:
Knit 4 Rows and then bind off.

I would knit 4 rows, click the counter 4 times.
row 1: knit one row
row 2: purl one row
row 3: knit one row
row 4: purl one row
Now I would bind off the live stitches. If I lost my row counter and had to count the 4 rows I would count to the row below the needle holding live stitches and that would be 4 rows. If I counted the stitches on the needle that would be Row 5 which is not supposed to exist.

The cast on row is not counted as a row although I've heard there are some people who think it is row 1 when using long tail cast on. I'm not one of them.


GFTC of NYC
my knitting photos on Flickr or Ravelry
aprilshowers Posted - 05/05/2010 : 11:33:54 AM
I do not count the cast on row but do count the row of live stitches on the needles. Alternatively, you could count the cast on row and not count the live row. At least, that is how I've always done it and it works for me!

________________________________________________
Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/7419094@N02/sets/72157600168327475/
Ravelry: http://www.ravelry.com/projects/aprilshowers
socks4all Posted - 05/05/2010 : 10:52:39 AM
cast on = row 0. Your sts are on your right needle. Turn the needle and transfer to your left hand. As soon as you knit the first st, you are on row 1. You are done with row 1 until you start the next row. So, the last full row on the needle counts
GFTC Posted - 05/05/2010 : 07:45:46 AM
Count up to the row immediately below the live stitches. The live stitches are not counted.

If you are knitting stripes you have to keep in mind that if you are changing color on a row those live stitches will become the last row in the stripe sequence.

Confused?

GFTC of NYC
my knitting photos on Flickr or Ravelry

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